TAMPA - How soon Tropicana Field will be relegated to the wrecking ball, Devil Rays principal owner Stuart Sternberg does not exactly know.
Yet, even though 20 years remain on the lease with the city of St. Petersburg, it’s not a matter of if the 17-year-old Trop will become obsolete, Sternberg said. It’s a matter of when.
Sternberg was quoted in Monday’s edition of the New York Times as saying Tropicana Field ‘’has a shelf life of five years.’’ Tuesday, he backed off the implication that the team would need a new stadium in five years. But, he added, it’s very unlikely Tropicana Field would remain a viable building until the lease runs out in 2027.
What are your thoughts? Does Tropicana Field need to be replaced, or can it be refurbished? Or is it fine the way it is?
And, if the Rays need a new stadium, where should it be built?
Heck, yeah the rays need a new field! Ok, so I am a Braves fan by birth- But my second team is the Devil Rays, and I want the best for them. I think (though I am not normally a person who thinks I know everyting) that I should be their president.
First, they need to move to TAMPA. Period. In St. Pete, they only get fans from St. Pete and West Tampa. Who wants to drive an hour from Wesley Chapel, Plant City, or Riverview to see a game? Through traffic? If they were in Tampa, the radius of people able to make it within a decent timeframe would be much larger. You could put a stadium in the Port of Tampa- I know, expensive- and all the businesses downtown would buy boxes to entertain clients. Those new condos at Channelside? Perfectly full of young professionals who would want to go to games. I know for sure I would go to many more games.
We need a stadium with a retractable roof to open on those perfect summer days when it doesn’t rain, and then close it for those that it does. They ARE the “boys of summer”!!! Why should they play inside in air-conditioning! Baseball is not meant to be played on turf. I know, I do enjoy the air-conditioning as a fan- but I would deal with the heat for a game on grass in the sun.
Aside from this, I would advise our management to follow the Braves. Don’t get rid of the good, young talent, until you have gotten the most out of them, and there is a suitable replacement. We need to realize that unless you are really lucky like the Marlins last year, you have to put a little bit of money in to get any production out. Of course I don’t mean as much as the Yankees, but when our payroll is just more than what their 3B gets (even though that is a crock), there is something amiss.
Alright, now that I have said my piece, I hope you enjoy and understand my point.
maybe if they make the playoffs once in a while and show fans that they’re committed to winning, they’d be deserving of a new stadium.
the free parking at tropicana is nice and all—and i know they’ve been trying to cater to the fans moreso than in the past—but the bottom line is that the team sucks.
this is like a kid who brings home failing grades and then asks his parents for a playstation.
Bravesgirl is right. The single most important mistake the Devil Rays made in the beginning of the franchise was to commit to St. Petersburg. The revenue stream would have been much better if the team played in Tampa. The logistics of having a field in Tampa should be common sense to the wunderkind brain trust Mr. Sternberg has brought to the Rays.
Locating the team in Tampa opens the market to a larger fan base including Orlando while still accessible to the St. Pete die hards who are few. Tampa would undoubtedly attract more fans and tickets.
But,,,,,, One thing to consider is the fact the D-Rays are established losers. They have the worst 10 year record in the history of modern baseball. So a lot of past and potential season ticket holders have already been jaded by not getting an adequate entertainment return on their $$ spent.
The solution is for the Rays to SPEND to attract WINNING talent.
Chances are that won’t happen anytime sooner than the Trop falls apart as expressed by Mr. Stu.
The owners of the team are happy making a good profit, and make no mistakes these guys are making good money, so they are going to be reluctant to pony up any money that could ruin a profitable venture.
They are going to be slow to spend on a team that wins or a buyout of the stadium lease, SO GET READY TO HEAR THIS LOUSY STADIUM SONG FOR YEARS TO COME.
Every team that has ever moved from Pinellas to Tampa has seen a DECREASE in attendance.
The Lightning, Storm and Forum are LOSING MONEY. (And they win championships.)
There are more Bucs season ticket holders in Pinellas than Hillsborough.
The Clearwater Threshers and Dunedin Blue Jays outdraw the Tampa Yankees.
There’s more population in Pinellas. There’s more money ...
Tampa’s Police Dept. STILL CAN’T direct traffic at the Forum or RayJay.
(Say what you will about the Trop, you can get in and out quickly.)
And they need to move to Tampa, why?
So they can build a venue with no parking?
Downtown Tampa can’t handle a motivational speaker on a weekday ...
If the Rays move across the Bay, they need to keep going all the way past Plant City, so that they can pull from the entire region. Make the stadium a huge hub for the high speed rail (I-4 and 27?) ... but then again, neither of those are ever really gong to happen.
Major League Baseball will draw more than minor league. When Roger Clemens comes to town the Tampa Yankees will outdraw the Threshers and Blue Jays, And when the Devil Rays move to Tampa many of the minor league fans will go see the Major league team they don’t have to drive over the Howard Frankland to get to.
The reason it’s easy to get in and out of the Trop is because there isn’t anybody there!
It’s going to take years to move to Tampa, and it will happen, because the smart boys that own and run the team know it’s a move for the better.
THEY’VE ALREADY DONE THEIR DEMOGRAPHICS AND THEIR CONCLUSIONS DON’T AGREE WITH YOU HIREJEFF.
I’ve posted on this before and again. And I will again in the future. The D-Rays need to be in Hillsborough County period. The people in Pinellas have had plenty of time to show support for this team and they still don’t go to the games. I go to a game 2-3 times every 2 weeks, I drive from Brandon after work, takes about an hour and a half(if I’m lucky), and I get there about the beginning of the 2nd. Put the team in Riverview, P.C. It’s easier to drive there than it is St. Pete. And I really doubt that anyone in Pinellas would really miss this team.
Everyone here seems to be acting like there are SOOO many more people in Hillsborough ... uh, that’s not even close to right.
Why would the Rays GAIN fans moving here? (And the “because it’s closer for me” isn’t good enough.)
The Lightning moved from Hillsborough (Fairgrounds) to Pinellas (Trop) and saw a HUGE increase in attendance (remember, they weren’t even selling out all their games in the EXPO HALL.) And then when the Bolts moved back to Tampa, their attendance fell again.
The Storm experienced the same thing ...
And it isn’t just a capacity thing, the Bolts and Storm aren’t even selling out the Forum (and they have a proud history of simply giving away tickets, so their numbers in the Forum are suspect to begin with.)
No one has bothered to try to counter the fact that there are more Bucs season ticket holders in Pinellas than Hillsborough ... maybe the Bucs should move to Pinellas!
You can argue that moving it to Tampa makes it closer to Lakeland or Plant City ... but you are also moving it further from the rapidly growing side of Manatee County, and the more heavily populated side of Pasco County.
I personally have seen the parking lots at the Trop (and surrounding areas) completely clear and the interstate running at speed within 30 minutes of the end of a tightly contested game with more than 40,000 fans in the building ... However, you can easily be stuck in traffic for an hour after a Lightning game with less than 20,000 people ... and don’t make any plans after a Bucs game, cause you aren’t going anywhere fast.
Until the Interstate system in Tampa is fixed, it would be a joke to move a stadium anywhere in Hillsborough. There are so many bottlenecks and bad designs that 81 home games would be a disaster. Everyone knows the problems, 275 through Tampa is a JOKE.
Driving on Interstate in Tampa any time near rush hour? bring a book.
Maybe they should build a stadium on barges in the Bay ... dock it in Tampa for 40 games, and in St. Pete for 40 ... and one in Port Manatee.
When Roger Clemens comes to town the Tampa Yankees will outdraw the Threshers and Blue Jays, And when the Devil Rays move to Tampa many of the minor league fans will go see the Major league team they don’t have to drive over the Howard Frankland to get to.
Well, let’s not try to fight logic with logic ... because everyone knows that when Roger Clemens shows up at the Trop, NO ONE GOES. They only show up when he’s at Legends Field.
IF that’s your defense ... then THANKS FOR PLAYING, we hope you enjoy the parting gifts!
The Threshers and the DBJ outdraw the T-yanks EVEN WITH THE RAYS nearby. But you surmise that the Rays will see an increase because the “Many” of the people who go see the T-yanks will then go see the Rays if they don’t have to cross a bridge. Wow ... move the Rays because a few hundred minor league yankees fans are scared of the big ol’ bridge?
You should try crossing that bridge every now and then, because once you are looking at Hillsborough through your rearview mirror, traffic on interstate actually moves (what a concept!)
This is a veiled threat by the Devil Rays. “We can only stay here for five more years.” What they expect is this threat is going to force the taxpayers to build them another stadium. For a team that is know for paying low salaries to it’s players they are asking for a lot. I would not want one cent of my tax money spent on a stadium for them. Why is it that the older teams like the Bosox have played in their own stadiums owned by them. Fenway park was built April 12 1912. That is ninety five years ago. Any additions or alterations to Fenway were paid for out of the Bosox coffers. They have never once asked for public money to help pay for stadium building. The ownership of the Devil Rays is pulling another scam on the public by threatening to leave. They are and always have been a loosing team because the owners are pocketing all profits and refusing to pay for quality players. I for one don’t want one cent of my tax money to go to a new stadium for them. They need to survive on their own or go away. I don’t think many people will miss them. They are a loosing proposition.
Okay, first I have to answer the population debate. I could not find any actual 2007 numbers, but at the 2000 census, Hillsborough had 50,000 more residents than Pinellas, and was projected to keep that edge on resident numbers in 2007. That is enough to fill out our new stadium in Tampa. In addition, if you account for the total population (based on 2000 census data) of all the counties immediately surrounding Hillsborough(3,040,059) and Pinellas(2,529,197), there is a difference of 510,862 people in favor of Hillsborough.
“There are more Bucs season ticket holders in Pinellas than Hillsborough.
The Clearwater Threshers and Dunedin Blue Jays outdraw the Tampa Yankees.
There’s more population in Pinellas. There’s more money ... ”
How did you find your information? What statistics do you have? We won’t counter your “facts” (except population as I just did) because you have not presented any “factual” information to prove anything but ideas.
Oh, yeah, can I mention the unknown number of migrants residing in Hillsborough county due to strawberry fields? And Polk county due to Orange groves? (these two counties are the highest producing counties in the state in their respective fruit production) Many of these migrants are of hispanic descent which has a history of their love for baseball.
And another point I must add is that we are talking about the “Tampa Bay Devil Rays” where is St. Pete in that? We’ll take the team, and you can have your stupid St. Pete times forum name back. We do not want it! I love the Ice Palace!!!
I will give credit for the fast moving traffic at the Trop, of course the games I have attended had less than 15,000 people at them. I have had an easy enough time getting out of the Ice Palace, not slow enough to take note of a difference. I will give that I-275 is slow, but it is getting better. I would rather spend 3o minutes in traffic AFTER the game and get to see it all than spend 1h30min in traffic before the game and miss into the 2nd inning. Soon, there will be a link between the crosstown and I-4 which will make it much easier to get out of downtown after events.
One quick note about traffic, my father who is building a house in Hernando county, takes one hour to get to Tampa, due to Veteran’s expressway, and 1h 30 minutes to his doctor in St. Pete (North part of the city) due to the traffic on Hwy 19. As for the 264,000 in Manatee, they can drive 15-30 minutes longer to Tampa. We still have another 230,000 edge in population of they decide not to come.
I would REALLY like to know where all of your numbers have come from. I am truly curious. I must say, though it was a joke, I like the idea of the floating stadium- we could start a new trend!
Everyone here seems to be acting like there are SOOO many more people in Hillsborough ... uh, that’s not even close to right.
Why would the Rays GAIN fans moving here? (And the “because it’s closer for me” isn’t good enough.)
The Lightning moved from Hillsborough (Fairgrounds) to Pinellas (Trop) and saw a HUGE increase in attendance (remember, they weren’t even selling out all their games in the EXPO HALL.) And then when the Bolts moved back to Tampa, their attendance fell again.
The Storm experienced the same thing ...
And it isn’t just a capacity thing, the Bolts and Storm aren’t even selling out the Forum (and they have a proud history of simply giving away tickets, so their numbers in the Forum are suspect to begin with.)
No one has bothered to try to counter the fact that there are more Bucs season ticket holders in Pinellas than Hillsborough ... maybe the Bucs should move to Pinellas!
You can argue that moving it to Tampa makes it closer to Lakeland or Plant City ... but you are also moving it further from the rapidly growing side of Manatee County, and the more heavily populated side of Pasco County.
I personally have seen the parking lots at the Trop (and surrounding areas) completely clear and the interstate running at speed within 30 minutes of the end of a tightly contested game with more than 40,000 fans in the building ... However, you can easily be stuck in traffic for an hour after a Lightning game with less than 20,000 people ... and don’t make any plans after a Bucs game, cause you aren’t going anywhere fast.
Until the Interstate system in Tampa is fixed, it would be a joke to move a stadium anywhere in Hillsborough. There are so many bottlenecks and bad designs that 81 home games would be a disaster. Everyone knows the problems, 275 through Tampa is a JOKE.
Driving on Interstate in Tampa any time near rush hour? bring a book.
Maybe they should build a stadium on barges in the Bay ... dock it in Tampa for 40 games, and in St. Pete for 40 ... and one in Port Manatee.
The fact of the matter is that its not that Hillsborough has sooo many more people, but the county is growing rapidly as opposed to near zero growth in pinellas. The census website (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/12/12103.html) states Pinellas county has grown 0.3% In the last 6 years. In that same time Hillsborough has gorwn 15.9% to surpass total population of Pinellas by over 200, 000. Another interesting fact is that 11.5% of Hillsborough is over 65 as compared to nearly double that in Pinellas, which is 20.8%. As for your season tickets stats for the bucs, please provide evidence or that argument is null and void. The facts have spoken, and its foolish to have a team in a retirement community. Polk, Pasco and hernando, all growing in double figures as well, have major highways that all lead into hillsborough county, which you would have to trave through, before getting to pinellas. Why not save those people 20 minutes and put the stadium in Tampa. One of the posters above stated that st pete had 10+ years to support a team, and unfortunately they just cant. Its time to move on.
Okay, what I absolutely HATE about going to a Devil Rays game is the fact that it’s mainly packed by the opposing teams’ fans. I understand they’re a new team, I just wish some would stay loyal to what is now their home team. If you come to a game and your team isn’t playing… root for the damn drays! Everyone says they suck and this and that… well, unfortunately it takes money to keep and buy good players and the Drays owner is too cheap in the salary. I agree with the bravesgirl, a retractable roof. Instead of spending more money on a new stadium, pay the players more and buy better players. Maybe that way we would gain a name for ourselves (we’re not doing THAT bad this season) and gain more fans. I understand that they are the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, so therefore their stadium should be in tampa. BUT, I live in New Port Richey. It’s a long haul from here either way to St Pete or Tampa. What’s the big deal though? It’s $8 tickets, and you can’t drive that far to see a game… like once?? I guess only if you’re an actual ‘loyal’ fan.
Census populations are suspect—espesially in this case ... because the number of people who claim their primary residence in the county is only part of the equation. Pinellas has nearly 40,000 hotel/motel rooms (and consider that a “critical shortage” and are taking measures to increase the capacity) ... there are also more than 150,000 homes/condos in the county that are “second homes” (and growing) so they don’t count in the census either (these numbers are from the Tourism Development Council and Chamber sites, as well as recent TBO/Trib and Times stories concerning property taxes.) These numbers also do not count the “short term rental” units, which are much harder to track because they include timeshares and condo/hotel units as well as homes and condos that overlap the “second home” numbers. At any given moment, there are likely to be more people in Pinellas—if for no other reason than the beaches.
The Bucs information may be a little tougher, because since the Glazers got the new stadium, they no longer actually publish this information ... however, using secondary sources such as activity on mailing permits and sampling and demographic analysis the St. Petersburg/Clearwater Sports Commission stands by the assertion that Pinellas is still the leading source of Bucs season ticket holders. Finally, I do have a source I can’t document (does the mailing for a Pewter Partner) that has access to the Bucs mailing lists ... and they confirm that Pinellas is the dominant market. (But they can’t confirm numbers, because they don’t know how many tickets each address represents.)
The Minor League attendance numbers are available through Minor League Baseball (which coincidentally is also based in St. Pete.) And in that case, keep in mind that the Blue Jays are in an antiquated facility and spend nothing on promoting the minor league team. The Threshers and Yanks are more “equals” in this equation, with Clearwater averaging more than 2,400 a game and the Yanks pulling in just under 1,700 (at least until Clemmens pitches on Friday) ... add 600 or so for the Jays in, and there are almost twice as many regular minor league baseball fans in Pinellas county on any given night. (Numbers from the FSL website.)
Finally, if the argument is purely population based, then the Orlando experiment could actually be a strike against Tampa ... because if you use the same “draw a circle and count the people in it” mentality, Orlando is very comparable to Tampa (in that you can draw from every direction without being hemmed in by water) and they couldn’t even sell out a 9,500 seat stadium. (Orlando claims to be the largest market without an MLB team ... but I don’t know if that is true. They never really supported the AA teams they had there ... however Daytona and Bravard on the perimeter of the Orlando area both draw higher attendance at their FSL teams than Tampa does.)
Finally, the issue with Playing in Legends field (which may actually have been another thread) is moot, not because of the Yanks or Steinbrenner, but because St. Pete city commission would have to sign off on it (a term of the lease) like they did for the series in Orlando ... and St. Pete would never let the Rays have a home game IN THIS MARKET that was not in St. Pete. They’d play at Bright House in Clearwater before they’d go to Tampa ... and there’s virtually NO chance they’ll ever even do that!
A stadium in Tampa would have probably improved attendance over the past decade, but lets face it, if the D’Rays were a 0.500 club in any season the attendance at the Trop would have been significantly higher! As a D’Rays fan from Punta Gorda (just down the road from the new Spring Training digs at the old Rangers camp in Pt. Charlotte) I do enjoy the shorter drive to the Trop as opposed to Tampa ( about 30 minutes shorter) as do most fans in Ft Myers, Charlotte County, Sarasota County and Bradenton but wll agree that the loss of potential fans in Lakeland, Orlando and to the North (Brooksville, Ocala, Gainesville) probably offsets that amount by a fair amount. But my point is that unless the D’Rays are a competitive product one can not expect over 16K a game except when the Yankmes, BoSox or the Braves (in rare interdivisional series) play in the Trop or any other venue. JMHO..... Interesting posts y’all. BTW Bravesgirl, I am a lifelong ATL fan, simply being a SunCoast FL native I have to cheer on the locl boys thus the D’Rays are my #1 team and the Bravos now #2.....
