Bout time. I was gettin’ thirsty reading this overquoted thread.
MICHAELAJV and Steve just need to hook up and get it over with. We all know that’s how the movie ends.
Now who’s got the popcorn........
LOL!
You might as well just think of another ending though. I’m happily married, and have been for 30 years this November. Yes, I feel like both me and my husband deserve medals for that accomplishment. Nowadays, staying together for 30 MONTHS is an amazing feat!
Ugh 3o years. My wife and I have been married only a few -but it feels longer (grin).
Went on a quest today -to find my ‘next replacement beer’. I’m seeking something along the Dunkel line, preferably available in keg or mini-keg (tap-able so I can put it in my kegerator) -two establishments in Tampa (well, one in Temple Terrace) were visited, I perused their lines of keggables, then went seeking single-bottles of those fine beverages. I have to work tonight until 03:30, I picked up a new flag (4x6) for the flag pole out front, and tomorrow morning from about 0900 until close to 1400 (maybe earlier) I’m at my Elks’ Lodge helping serve up BBQ chicken for the 4th (we do it every year), then off to some friends’ place for a few hours, then home to have smoked sausage and try out some of these fine beers, and hopefully come up with one I really enjoy, and feel like getting in Keg form
All in all, I have a great Independence Day planned. Hope all of you do as well -and hope it finds you all having a safe and enjoyable day.
God I LOVE being an American.
Ugh 3o years. My wife and I have been married only a few -but it feels longer (grin).
Went on a quest today -to find my ‘next replacement beer’. I’m seeking something along the Dunkel line, preferably available in keg or mini-keg (tap-able so I can put it in my kegerator) -two establishments in Tampa (well, one in Temple Terrace) were visited, I perused their lines of keggables, then went seeking single-bottles of those fine beverages. I have to work tonight until 03:30, I picked up a new flag (4x6) for the flag pole out front, and tomorrow morning from about 0900 until close to 1400 (maybe earlier) I’m at my Elks’ Lodge helping serve up BBQ chicken for the 4th (we do it every year), then off to some friends’ place for a few hours, then home to have smoked sausage and try out some of these fine beers, and hopefully come up with one I really enjoy, and feel like getting in Keg form
All in all, I have a great Independence Day planned. Hope all of you do as well -and hope it finds you all having a safe and enjoyable day.
God I LOVE being an American.
You’ve been off topic for more than 3 pages.
The point of departure from the subject is the point of conflict.
So what’t the problem?
Don’t feel that you can vent on how you really feel about immigration.
Being politically correct certainly puts a strain on the brain, and the heart too.
Not being true to yourself is bad for your health.
Nightbiker, you have been misled. Racial/cultural diversity has been the downfall of every empire in the history of the world. We whose families have been here for the last 500 - 100 years or so have nothing in common with almost 1/3 of the present population.
The American Indians certainly learned that being lax about immigration was a big mistake.
And Montezuma (Moctezuma II) erred greatly when he mistook Cores for a god.
Bending to the invading Mexican hordes, be they legal or illegal is national/racial suicide.
You apparently live in a bubble for you do not see what has been going on. Oh, you watch TV - !!
What are you watching tonight?
Propaganda, social engineering, role modeling, conditioning, adrenalin markers, or desensitization?
I remain politically incorrect, and without apology,
OZ
OZ files a protest: You’ve been off topic for more than 3 pages.
The point of departure from the subject is the point of conflict.
So what’t the problem?
Don’t feel that you can vent on how you really feel about immigration.
SH: Nah, it’s more likely a snippet of evidence that those involved in this Thread so far aren’t overly flapped up about the whole subject of American immigration policies.
OZ declares: Nightbiker, you have been misled. Racial/cultural diversity has been the downfall of every empire in the history of the world.
SH: That’s one opinion.
Others have concluded with equal confidence that the most common thread in “fallen societies” is that they share at some point an uncontrolled desire to expand via military and violent force.
Of course, no society per se has “fallen”, at least in the past several centuries. They’ve simply evolved.
Count me as one that doesn’t lose too much sleep over the influx from south, west, east or north of our border. If I’m fortuante enough to live an average lifetime (another 40 or more years), I’m confident we’ll see further assimilation of the North American cultures and I for one consider that very positive.
Count me as one that doesn’t lose too much sleep over the influx from south, west, east or north of our border. If I’m fortuante enough to live an average lifetime (another 40 or more years), I’m confident we’ll see further assimilation of the North American cultures and I for one consider that very positive.
Sincerely,
Senor Steve en Clearwater
Either you are a pacifist who will do anything to stay alive, or you are a moron. I’m gonna have to go with the pacifist, given that you at least have a grasp of the written word.
And while I can understand the idea of not wanting any conflict in your life, I find it distasteful.
And while not sure if “Pacificst” is accurate, I’m certainly a strong advocate of non-violence.
I believe that assimilation of the two (at least) countries of Mexico and the USA is inevitable unless the USA as a whole decides to literally build a wall and enact the death penalty for illegal crossings and/or facilitating someone crossing illegally.
Given that I view the odds of the latter as non-existent, I am returned to forseeing the former.
I build my pwn personal expectations and responses accordingly.
We need to further expand US business and personal influence directly south to help counter the current motviation for Mexicans and Central Americans to expand themselves north.
I figure Jose and Juanita will be more motivated to stay south of the border the more they can experience a US-type lifestyle south of the current US border.
Many Americans better get used to the notion that if they insist on keeping all the higher paying jobs and profitable companies operating only north of the border they can be assured that the human population from south will graviate north.
At the moment, I get the sense that a lot of Americans want to keep it all north of the Rio Grande and if someone from south tries to get a taste, we will obtruct them.
If that is one’s belief, I say Good Luck because it appears to me to defy basic human motivaiton and general economics.
Althougth I suspect Steve in Clearwater tends to be more liberal on many topics than me and most others contributing brilliance to these forums, he often makes some useful factual and analytical points--- providing some couterpoint and intellectual challenge to the other side of the issue. And name-calling/pigeon-holing rarely advances the substance of any debate. Plus true morons are oblivious to insult and beating up on pacifists is just too easy and therefore not very satisfying.
On the merits of some recent points, not sure that history proves that diversity leads to the downfall of a nation/culture...and if that were so, the US should have gone under long ago due to our welcoming/acceptance of repeated waves of immigration and refugees and nimble adoption of ideas/innovations from all countries. And remember that unless you are of pure Native American blood (mostly found in Central America) you are the descendant of diverse “newbies” who arrived within the last few centuries. And perhaps that is part of the instinctive distaste for Mexican and Central American immigrants, where their Indian blood is so evident on their faces, as opposed to equally illegal Canadians who look just like us, or even Cubans, most of whom are quick to claim Spanish ancestry.
History does indicate that some royal lines and societies have petered out due to lack of diversity resulting from excessive inbreeding and inability to adapt to external changes that their society could not block at their frontiers (presaging our global world where kids in Uganda keep up with the misbehavior of US celebrities; we now routinely eat out-of-season produce from the Southern Hemisphere; and are unsuccessfully trying to reduce our dependancy of Arab oil)
And frankly I do not fear any near-future consolidation of all North American governments for lots of political and economic reasons, notwithstanding tripartite plots, one-world suspicions and the DaVinci Code. Corporations do not need a single unified goverment to deal with so long as they have the means to influence/control most of them through their the multi-national corporate mechanisms. And it is handy to have some fall-back/refuge regimes to move money/jobs to if facing goverment interference in one country. And if youi think a One-World goverment will lbe put in place by morons, pacifists and other liverals over the objections of the multi-national corps, you need to go back to Economics 101. Not cynical, just reality.
And other than occasional political persecutions/upheavals, economics are clearly the driving force behind most mass migration waves....the potato famine in Ireland as an example, but magnified when the lower-economic situation is wading or paddling distance from the US...instead of requiring steerage payment on the Titanic and similar trans-oceanic conveyance. (BTW after building the 50’ plus wall across the border stes adn redeploying all National Guard troops....what do we do aobut the Ocean/Gulf water routes?.....despite massive build up of DEA, the Coast Guard, etc. we have not had much success in halting the flow of illegal drug in the last 40 years) Next will we hear about mining the Gulf of Mexico or walls on our beaches and wetlands?
Steve makes a valild point about the need for better-paying work in Mexico to offset the temptation to head north. And of course some US aid has been used for that purpose.....but even more jobs in Mexico (maquiladores) have been created by private industry going “offshore” to find cheaper labor and escape some unfavorable economics in the US some caused by government and union involvement in business activities---some beneficial to workers...other excesses ultimately resulting in job flight. And if the flow of immigrants is somehow effectively stopped or slowed, expect more portable jobs (manufacturing, IT, some service) to leave the US to find the cheaper wages and acceptable skills where corporations can find them, whether Mexico, China or India.
But here there will continue to be a scramble for the non-portable jobs, mostly grubby work.....agricultural, construction, food service personal service, etc. and where those cannot be moved offshore (e.g. importing more Mexican lettuce; McDonalds order taking in Pakistan’; modular construction units produced elsewhere), you can expect those employers to continue to hire immigrants who are eager to work, willing to accept lower wages/benefits, and less likely to file complaints or jump from job to job. And businesses clearly prefer to hire “legal” workers simple to avoid trouble, but in a crunch they will not look too closely where the alternative is to run short-staffed and lose business. And how likely is is that government at any level will firmly and consistently bust the chops of the very businesses that are the most reliable political campaign contributors?
And note that none of this analysis addresses any “humanitarian’ or ‘Fairness” concerns embedded in the issue… the motives usually ascribed mainly to squishy liberals , but I hope not entirely alien to compassionate conservatives.
******************************
In the words of my favorite Philosoher of the 20th Century: “Follow the Money” Deep Throat
Ohzone, I’m really not sure how to reply to someone who obviously lives in a bubble, that accuses me of living in a bubble.
I’ve NEVER been shy about how I felt as regards illegal immigration. I’ve been very very clear -all you have to do is take your fingers off the keyboard and read a little, to know my position. I do NOT have ANY intention of EVER tolerating illegals -I don’t care WHERE they come from, or how they get in.
Now, isolationism is hardly the answer. Its a fine answer if you wish to stagnate as a society -and its not an opinion for me to say that every nation that has practiced isolationism has failed to keep pace with the world outside its’ borders. Likewise whenever one of those isolationist countries has begun to open its borders, it has begun to grow. There is such a things as ‘too much’ of a good thing, to be sure. And I have absolutely NO problem with immigration -so long as its done LEGALLY, and we must understand that when you decide to become a member of another country, the onus is upon YOU to learn THEIR language and THEIR customs -they should not have to bend their ways to accomodate YOU. YOU wanted to be a part of THEM, not the other way around. So long as this simple set of rules is followed, a country can benefit GREATLY from immigration. OURS has, tremendously. Its my opinion that over the last three decades, when we have allowed illegals to not only come into and stay here, but even changed our policies to accomodate them (re-printing many government documents and forms into their language instead of forcing them to learn ours if they wanted to participate) -THIS has harmed us, not helped us.
I do NOT advocate a closed-door policy -anyone who does really needs to wake up, get away from the TV, and take a few deep breaths and experience reality. Isolationism does not help a country -history is on my side in this “opinion”.
As for your silly jibes, I’ve experienced quite a bit of life -very little of it from a TV set -and have strayed well beyond my city, county, state and even country. I think I have a pretty well rounded education in that respect.
Here’s a missed point, they do not want to be american citizens. They are here strictly for the oppertunities. They work, they send money to mexico, when they send enough to retire on, they go back. My wife works with a documented allien who has been here 5 years and plans to go home this time next year to retire. Five years and his english is worse than my german, and I didnt learn hardly any german whe I was stationed there for 4 years.(and I am realy sorry all these years later I didnt, it probably would have made my time there even more enjoyable than it was) They come here to have their kids educated, because even our schools in Florida are better than what their kids can attend in mexico. Why should they make an effort to learn english when bleeding heart liberals say, it needs to be in spanish as well. It wasn’t in German, French, Latin, Gaelic, Italian, pick a language of an immigrant from history.
Scary thoughts, the federal government states that to get a CDL you have to read, write and speak english. why then does Florida give the CDL handbok in spanish and allow people to take the written test in spanish? Think about that next time you see a truck with hazmat placards on it being driven by an hispanic. The Hazmat reference guide published by the feds, the bible of how to load, what can be loaded together, what cant be loaded together, how much can be loaded, how to safe guard the load, how to report a spill etc isn’t published in spanish.
Ballots in spanish. you can’t vote unless your a citizen, you can’tbe a citizen till you learn english. And now there is fight over the requirement to have a government issued photo id to vote. Am I the only one that sees something wrong with this picture?
Here’s a missed point, they do not want to be american citizens. They are here strictly for the oppertunities. They work, they send money to mexico, when they send enough to retire on, they go back. My wife works with a documented allien who has been here 5 years and plans to go home this time next year to retire. Five years and his english is worse than my german, and I didnt learn hardly any german whe I was stationed there for 4 years.(and I am realy sorry all these years later I didnt, it probably would have made my time there even more enjoyable than it was) They come here to have their kids educated, because even our schools in Florida are better than what their kids can attend in mexico. Why should they make an effort to learn english when bleeding heart liberals say, it needs to be in spanish as well. It wasn’t in German, French, Latin, Gaelic, Italian, pick a language of an immigrant from history.
Scary thoughts, the federal government states that to get a CDL you have to read, write and speak english. why then does Florida give the CDL handbok in spanish and allow people to take the written test in spanish? Think about that next time you see a truck with hazmat placards on it being driven by an hispanic. The Hazmat reference guide published by the feds, the bible of how to load, what can be loaded together, what cant be loaded together, how much can be loaded, how to safe guard the load, how to report a spill etc isn’t published in spanish.
Ballots in spanish. you can’t vote unless your a citizen, you can’tbe a citizen till you learn english. And now there is fight over the requirement to have a government issued photo id to vote. Am I the only one that sees something wrong with this picture?
Why should they make an effort to learn english when bleeding heart liberals say, it needs to be in spanish as well.
I had no idea that Jeb Bush was a bleeding heart librul.
Think about that next time you see a truck with hazmat placards on it being driven by an hispanic. The Hazmat reference guide published by the feds, the bible of how to load, what can be loaded together, what cant be loaded together, how much can be loaded, how to safe guard the load, how to report a spill etc isn’t published in spanish.
A very wide net is cast when using labels like Hispanic. For me the term is too broad and unfair. I’m not sure how you meant it to be taken.
Every “Hispanic” that I know is native born and English is their only language.
Go look at the Viet Nam memorial or read the names in The Wall, the names of the casualties in the Iraq war or any of war for that matter. You’ll see many names of “Hispanic” origin. I wish people would be more specific when disparaging those of Hispanic origin, The argument you have should be with illegal aliens of any nationality and the foolish politicians that pass legislation to accommodate Spanish speakers. Just because someones name is Martinez or Garcia, doesn’t mean they are from another country or that they read and speak Spanish.
