tstarkey,
I’m just trying to bring this back to spcific practical terms from subjective philosophical arguments. You believe family courts need to be fixed because you believe they aren’t meeting their responsibilities to parents, children, and society. I question the validity of your belief and I reject your proposition that the courts are “driving the market of societal evolution.” Courts drive nothing. They are reactive bodies, not proactive. Courts do not petition anyone. Someone must petition the courts to get them involved. Courts are not responsible for raising children. Parents are. Courts do not cause people to commit crimes. Yes, the courts are imperfect. But people who commit criminal acts and parents who neglect their own familial responsibilities are not competent to qualitatively analyze those imperfections.
S.

Socrates,
I’m sure you’ve seen the record. I’ve never even been accused of committing a criminal act, I haven’t been accused of neglecting to meet my family responsibilities either. Why would you say that? I encourage anyone who has an interest to review the record, but this blog wasn’t intended to be about me.

Socrates,
Over the course of my career working for the State, I’ve reviewed hundreds of adult offender and youthful offender inmate files. Besides the fact that many did not have the life skills necessary to survive in the survival of the fittest world we live in, most have been placed in their free world environments by the Courts. It was from these environments that many of these individuals became breakers of the rules. So, after the Courts place them in these dysfunctional environments, they commit crimes then they get to come back before the Courts to be judged and eventually they end up incarcerated.

Socrates,
That last comment isn’t all of it. That is part of it but there are many more signs that what I believe is true is in fact true. While individually we may not always get what we deserve, our society will ultimately get whatever it deserves. What it seems to deserve now is increasing violent crime, corruption, a growing gap between the rich and the poor, war, decaying infrastructure, future scarce natural resources, scary projected budget deficits, and a dim future for our children and theirs. I believe we should look for solutions, and I believe one of them happens to be making the Judiciary more accountable to the people, a flaw in our Constitution recognized early on by at least one of its’ authors. To my life personally, I guess it really is irrelevant. Thanks for your insight.

Aside from the views you have expressed in this forum, the only thing I know about you is your screen name. I did not accuse you of committing a crime or neglecting your family responsibilities. Evidently I unintentionally struck a nerve. I’m sorry you took my comments as a personal insult. I didn’t mean them that way. I simply questioned the validity of your belief that the courts aren’t meeting their responsibilities and I rejected the idea that the courts are “driving the market of societal evolution.” I think you do a disservice to many intelligent and honorable family court judges who do the best they can to repair the damages that people have done to their own families. Granting that there are a few exceptions, most of the people embroiled in family court actions have well documented criminal or civil histories, or repetitive contacts with law enforcement or social service agencies that clearly show they do not possess the emotional and character attributes that qualified to judge the performance of the courts. Since you insist on applying a deeply flawed survival of the fittest argument to an area where it has no application, obviously we will not reach an agreement. Good luck.

Socrates,
“But people who commit criminal acts and parents who neglect their own familial responsibilities are not competent to qualitatively analyze those imperfections.” -Socrates

You have repeatedly made this insinuation throughout our discussion. I’ve ignored it because it just does not apply in my case at least in my role as a parent. However, the last time you said it as is copied and pasted, any literate English speaking person would take that as an insult. Thank you for your apology and I accept. Now, perhaps we can continue this informative discussion in a more civilized and respectful manner. If you would like to review the court file I’ll be happy to discuss any information that concerns you. Making personal attacks on the person with whom you disagree is not a constructive approach to reconciling differences of opinion.

It’s getting late for me, so I’m going to call it a night. I will say that this philosophical stuff is a little beyond me, I’m more of a numbers guy. You have me thinking that since this really is a multi-disciplinary social science issue that perhaps I should review the scientific method and approach it from that perspective. As far as the character of those who make the decisions, thats’ something I’m not qualified to judge. I’m more concerned about the outcomes as this is the burden society must bear. And, I’m concerned about the human suffering.

tstarkey -
Never intended to personally attack or disrespect you. Just exchanging perspectives. Permit me to respectfully offer some questions for you to think about. No need to answer me. Since, Flamom and I were the only people to reply to your original question, could it be that very few others perceive the problem with the family courts to be as serious as you perceive it to be? If that is the case, could it be that your perceptions are unfairly clouded or biased by your own personal experiences? Knowing that we each have a finite amount of time and energy, and a huge variety of goal options to select from, will the amount of time and energy we expend on the goals we select have a payoff that equals or exceeds the amount of time and energy invested? Are there other goals that we can select that might be less glamorous, but are more achievable and have a more immediate beneficial effect for us and those around us?
S.

Socrates,
I’m seriously thinking about the questions you have posed? However, my initial thought was the following response of which I was enlightened by someone I cherish.
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” - Albert Einstein
However, while looking for this quote I found two which I believe are applicable to our discussion.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” - Albert Einstein
“We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
Thank you for your opinions and insight.

Socrates - 12 October 2007 03:06 PM

tstarkey -
Never intended to personally attack or disrespect you. Just exchanging perspectives. Permit me to respectfully offer some questions for you to think about. No need to answer me. Since, Flamom and I were the only people to reply to your original question, could it be that very few others perceive the problem with the family courts to be as serious as you perceive it to be? If that is the case, could it be that your perceptions are unfairly clouded or biased by your own personal experiences? Knowing that we each have a finite amount of time and energy, and a huge variety of goal options to select from, will the amount of time and energy we expend on the goals we select have a payoff that equals or exceeds the amount of time and energy invested? Are there other goals that we can select that might be less glamorous, but are more achievable and have a more immediate beneficial effect for us and those around us?
S.

Socrates,
Unfortunately, I’ll have to go with Einstein on this and say no their are not “less glamorous” but more achievable goals that would have a more immediate and beneficial effect for those around me or for myself. I spoke with a well known individual over the internet a few years back who told me that all I could do was complain, that this was our form of government in the State of Florida. With that in mind and the fact that you have brought to my attention that the problem is not only with civil or family court but is with the Judicial System in the State of Florida itself, I will begin a new blog with the purpose of educating the public as to what impact the Judicial System has on us and those around us. The State Court and its officers have run “roughshod” over both my rights and the rights of those around me for years, but it cannot deny me the right of my freedom of speech. While I may be a resident of the State of Florida, I’m a citizen of the United States of America.

"It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right. The only obligation which I have a right to assume, is to do at any time what I think is right.”

“Law never made man a whit more just; and, by means of respect for it, even the well-disposed are daily made the agents of injustice.”

-Henry David Thoreau, “On the Duty of Civil Disobedience”

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.” - David

“The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.” - Solomon

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” - Solomon

Sayings that apply to most of the people who practice civil disobedience, including Henry David Thoreau.

"If the obstacles of bigotry and priestcraft can be surmounted, we may hope that common sense will suffice to do everything else.” -Thomas Jefferson

“He [King George III] has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers (of the Court) to harass our people and eat out their substance.-- Thomas Jefferson

“What county can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance?” - Thomas Jefferson

Socrates,
Your thoughts concern me.