CADDY wonders: you know idk how you can be a bucs fan and be saying this.

SH: Ah...there you have it.

I am not a “Bucs fan”.

Nor do I have any particular ire towards them. 

I am a fan of the greenback and my forecast was my personal opinion of the Bucs’ value for remainder of season as an investment versus my STIB.

Today, they Pushed the betting line of -3

ACURA T gives me deserved smak for my inaccurately stated review of “Bucs wins vs winning teams”. I stated “two wins in past 54 outings” This was incorrect.

I did in fact “check it out”, but I did it too quickly and was clearly careless.  I failed to acknowledge Mia and Min having a winning record in 2005 (both were 9-7) and I also missed two others.

One challenge with working on a 24 hour clock is that when I get towards the end of my candle, I might get a tad shoddy.

Here is the more accurate and exact summary.

Prior to today’s game versus Tennesee, the Bucs had SEVEN wins against winning teams in their past 68 games. (The one before that was the season opening shutout of Philly in 2003, preceded by the SuperBowl season).

2007

at Carolina (currently 4-2, though same team that many are decrying as “don’t have a chance with QB injuries...")

2006

Philadelphia (10-6)....Thank a 61yard FG for that one, but it still counts

2005

CAR (11-5)
MIN (9-7)
MIA (9-7)

2004

ATL (11-5)

2003

DAL (10-6)

ACURAT concludes: I appreciate your admiting you were on a negative rant - all of us are entitled to our opinions, right?

SH: Oh I make no apology for the negative rant.  The team pretty much blows and if one might be inclined to bet them in the remaining ten games, I advise careful examination.

And yes, we are all entitled to opinions.  If you happen to be someone who enjoys watching NFL without investing any money, there’s certainly less urgency to spot “bad news”.  I understand that most fans of NFL are in that group and offer a sincere hat tip.

Good part is that if Bucs are a notch or two better than my dour review, the local TBay economy will be better....heh

FULL DISCLOSURE...I lost a unit today as I bet TENN +3 (Push) and also TENN moneyline (LOST).

SteveInClearwater - 14 October 2007 10:42 PM

ACURA T gives me deserved smak for my inaccurately stated review of “Bucs wins vs winning teams”. I stated “two wins in past 54 outings” This was incorrect.

I did in fact “check it out”, but I did it too quickly and was clearly careless.  I failed to acknowledge Mia and Min having a winning record in 2005 (both were 9-7) and I also missed two others.

One challenge with working on a 24 hour clock is that when I get towards the end of my candle, I might get a tad shoddy.

Here is the more accurate and exact summary.

Prior to today’s game versus Tennesee, the Bucs had SEVEN wins against winning teams in their past 68 games. (The one before that was the season opening shutout of Philly in 2003, preceded by the SuperBowl season).

2007

at Carolina (currently 4-2, though same team that many are decrying as “don’t have a chance with QB injuries...")

2006

Philadelphia (10-6)....Thank a 61yard FG for that one, but it still counts

2005

CAR (11-5)
MIN (9-7)
MIA (9-7)

2004

ATL (11-5)

2003

DAL (10-6)

Hey, thanks for figuring that out.  I was curious as to what the right number was.  Seven is still low, but better than two.  Did you know that since the Glazer’s bought the team the Bucs have won 100 games (in 12 years) - not including the 4 wins this year?  The previous 19 under Culverhouse the team won 87 games.  So, although this team is not in the top tier, they are far better under the current owners than they used to be.

Curious, since you seem to have access to information faster than I do - how many teams with winning records did the Bucs lose to in the same time frame?  I am sure it exceeds 7, but I wonder by how much?  I assume the Bucs lost to teams with losing records as well in that time frame.

SteveInClearwater - 14 October 2007 10:47 PM

ACURAT concludes: I appreciate your admiting you were on a negative rant - all of us are entitled to our opinions, right?

SH: Oh I make no apology for the negative rant.  The team pretty much blows and if one might be inclined to bet them in the remaining ten games, I advise careful examination.

And yes, we are all entitled to opinions.  If you happen to be someone who enjoys watching NFL without investing any money, there’s certainly less urgency to spot “bad news”.  I understand that most fans of NFL are in that group and offer a sincere hat tip.

Good part is that if Bucs are a notch or two better than my dour review, the local TBay economy will be better....heh

FULL DISCLOSURE...I lost a unit today as I bet TENN +3 (Push) and also TENN moneyline (LOST).

I used to bet against the Bucs regularly in the “good ol’ days” in the 1980s when covering the spread was a lark for the team.  I don’t do it anymore since they are not sure to miss the spread every week.  I rarely bet - the occasional bet.

That being said, I think the Panthers are probably a good place to look to bet against next week.  Carr is still out, and Testaverde is now the oldest winning starting QB ever in the NFL beating an Arizona team that was on its third string QB (Tim Rattay) who just threw three INTs.  The Panthers play the Colts and if the spread is less than 14, I am tempted to go against them. 

Thanks for figuring out there were 7 wins, i wondered what the number was.  How many losses do they have against winning teams in the same time frame I wonder?  I am sure it is more than 7.

Hey, while not a Buc fan per se (I moved here in 1998 after 37 years in Dallas), I do know full well the difference between pre-Glazer and Glazer versions.

I was fortunate as a local spectator to move here right as ownership changed.

As for your query, I’ll let you do the legwork, but here’s a couple pages that should make it easier

http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pageLoader.aspx?page=/data/nfl/teams/pastresults/2007-2008/team15.html

and

http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pageLoader.aspx?page=/data/nfl/teams/pastresults/2007-2008/team15.html

Suggest you open them in two side by side windows for easy toggle back and forth.

The first is a TBay Bucs Past Results. The second is NFL Standings

There’s a dropdown menu to check previous seasons.  Note that the dropdown menu in earlier years is moved a bit further to the right and may not be visible on your screen unless you scroll right a bit.

Bucs record 2003 through today’s win vs Tennessee is 31-39.  A basic actuarial guess would be that they lost 19 or 20 to teams with winning records, but likely a couple more since teams with winning records win more...(smile).

Their overall schedule has been a “First Place” schedule in 2003 and 2006 and a “Fourth place “schedule” in 2004-5 (and this season to date).

Not to further extend the Topic rant, but as a forecaster, I’m not counting out the NO Saints just yet.  They’ve got four losses, but only two in conference.

Actually, the IND/CAR game is in two weeks (Panthers Bye in Week 7)

I’m sure the line will be under 10, but probably not by much.  Indy has to play Jacksonville first and it’s on the preceding Monday Night.

Carolina’s at least got a reliable rushing game and a healthy defense (for better or worse).  They also have a very reliable FG kicker.

Consider participation in my Short Term Investment thread.  One need not have actual money on the line to share ideas on who may or may not prevail each week when graded against The Dreaded Number.

Thanks for the links, when I get a chance I will give them a look as they sound like a good source.

EDIT: I looked at the links and they appear to be the same link. However, the one link is very useful as it gives me an idea of the lines (good for entertainment purposes of my own).  Thanks!

Edit 2: Quickly checked using another source. Here is what I Found:
2003 - lost 5 to winning teams
2004 - lost 5 to winning teams (New Orleans and Carolina were .500 or worse)
2005 - lost 3 to winning teams (Bucs had winning record that year, only 5 losses)
2006 - lost 6 to winning teams (ATL swept but was 7-9,, Carolina was 8-8, Pittsburg was 8-8, NY Giatns were 8-8) I did all of this fast, so I hope I did not make mistakes.  But they lost about 19 to teams with winning records in the same timespan - and lost a lot of games to 8-8 teams apparently.

What is the Short Term Investment thread?  Sorry, never heard of it.  I guess I missed the Colts/Panthers game by a week.  Wow, if the Carolina/Colts game is less than 10 I am very tempted to take the Colts.  I don’t know if you know this, but Testaverde with his win yesterday is now the oldest QB ever in the NFL’s history to win a game at his age.  Only two have started older than him - Steve DeBerg and Warren Moon - and they both lost in a fill-in roll.  He did not throw for that much, only 200 yards and the Cardinals threw three INTs to help them.

I don’t think P. Manning will be as likely to give many handouts to the Carolina defense.  Yes, Carolina has a great field goal kicker but it will not make a difference if the Colts score 33 points on Carolina.  I don’t think their defense is any better than Tampa’s.  Carolina does have a better running game than Tampa, but overall, they are about the same level team.

Here ya go

http://www.tboforums.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/2730/

SteveInClearwater - 15 October 2007 11:35 AM

Here ya go

http://www.tboforums.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/2730/

Okay, thanks, bookmarked it.  We will see if I get up on it enough to post any thoughts.

steve wakes up and his 1st thought is, God must have felt nice today sicne im still alive. Then he decides to cook breakfast but says “ Nah, Ill probably burn the eggs.” he gets dressed but puts his pants on slowly, because he’s afraid he might rip the stitches, then he opens the door to head off to work (checking through the peephole first, making sure that there is not a burglar waiting to pounce on him outside). He tip toes to the car, but then decides against driving, because he’ll probably get into a wreck. After walking to work he arrives but tries to avoid his boss because he just knows that he’ll get yelled at. . . . etc. etc. Poor Steve never gets his heartbroken though, because there’s no room for either joy or hearbreak when you are so pessimistic about everything. I bet Steve goes to Bucs game with the other teams jersey on and cheers for the opposition, then comes home and tells everyone what a great Buc’s fan he is. Stay home Steve, and try not to write anymore, even you yourself must agree “ I’m probably wrong.”

This must be an incomplete typo. . . I’m sure what you MEANT to say was :

The Bucs are FINISHING 2007 with a winning record and a playoff spot. It’s okay, we all make mistakes.

10-6. Division Champs.

It’s all good, cause it can go both ways. Bucs players may either print out YOUR posts as motivation to prove you and the other critics wrong or they can print out mine and the other faithful’s as motivation to not let us down. I personally, would rather have a goal fulfilled than not have one to chase at all.

jvnootz - 25 October 2007 08:52 PM

This must be an incomplete typo. . . I’m sure what you MEANT to say was :

The Bucs are FINISHING 2007 with a winning record and a playoff spot. It’s okay, we all make mistakes.

10-6. Division Champs.

It’s all good, cause it can go both ways. Bucs players may either print out YOUR posts as motivation to prove you and the other critics wrong or they can print out mine and the other faithful’s as motivation to not let us down. I personally, would rather have a goal fulfilled than not have one to chase at all.

SH: heh....Well now that I realize Buc players may be printing out my random TBO Forum sports opinions, I’ll take extra care with what I write in the future.

SIDE NOTE

Since I created this thread, Bucs have mustered a mighty 29 points in two games versus a pair of teams that combined for nine wins last season.

Teams change year to year, drastically, I might add. That’s the reason our division has alternated a champ from year to year. It’s why the San Diego Chargers are having the start they are, it’s why the Jet’s are having theirs. It’s why N.O. has flipped its stats and why the Bears have theirs. It’s the nature of the business. It’s become apparent that you get your opinions of teams strictly from betting lines. What’d the line say about that Carolina game a few weeks back? Or Michigan’s against Appalachian State? Gators, Ohio State? For a non Buccaneer fan, you sure patrol this forum a lot.