Sporty Lady - 25 November 2007 12:53 AM

gritshifter - 23 November 2007 11:55 AM

tstarkey - 21 November 2007 06:40 PM

I’ll end my contribution to the forum altogether as I’m no longer in the area.
Sincerely,
tstarkey

Finally some good news in this thread.  I wish you well in your future endeavours.

Grits, in his defense, he has rights to feel as he does.  I know more about this than anyone else here (I think) and he has been shafted by these courts.  Unless you know the facts, please back off of him.  This is why I have not posted back, until now.

tstarkey, I’ve been busy, and I’m sorry I have not gotten back to you.  E-mail me if you’d like.  I do understand a lot more now, and I do care.

Have a good night, tstarkey. 

Sporty lady,
Thank you for the sentiments, but much of this is not about how I feel. Many of my comments are facts derived from my research and my personal observations. This is why no one is substantively refuting my comments here.

tstarkey - 01 December 2007 08:56 PM

This is why no one is substantively refuting my comments here.

Nobody is supporting your comments either.  You have not proven that Highlands county courts are corrupt.  This thread has nothing but your opinion and not one single example of corruption at a local level.  Your OPINION is not fact. 

I see no evidence of any kind of “Good ole boy network” in Highlands county.  I have lived in this county for 22 years and have never seen any evidence of this network you speak of.  Where do I go to find this “good ole boy network”?

grits,
“...their decisions, seeming to concern individual suitors only, pass silent and unheeded by the public at large...” -excerpted from Thomas Jefferson, 1823

As is stated above, you probably would not see most of the corruption. However, can you cite any recent competitive elections you have seen in Highlands County for vacant trial court or county court judicial positions? If so, who were to candidates, what were the outcomes, and what is the source of your information? Can you cite any recent challenges to sitting Judges running for reelection? If so, who were the candidates, what were the outcomes, and what is the source of your information? Are you aware of any referrals by local Judges of lawyer misconduct to the Florida bar? If so, who made the referrals, who was referred, and what were the outcomes?

Don’t you think that Highlands County residents would be better served to have a choice as to who their Judges are going to be at the time of election? Don’t you think that sitting Judges should be held to account by the citizens when they fail to meet their responsibilities? Do you think Highlands County and the 10th Judicial Circuit would have the same sitting Judges that they currently have if the residents were given the opportunity to select who their Judges would be?

What do the answers to these questions lead you to conclude? Lastly, are you predisposed to a particular view on this subject, and if so why?

I have travelled the country and seen many States where there is evidence of competitive elections for local Judicial positions. I think this is a healthier form of govenment in that the Judiciary in these states seem to be accountable to the citizens they serve. I’d like to see this check on the power of the State Judiciary brought to Highlands County and to the other rural counties in Florida that do not have competitively elected Judges. I’ve found evidence that indicates that not only would the adults in Florida be better served by this change, but that children would be better served as well. I’ll get to this next, but gotta work now.

You are dodging my question Tstarkey.  Please answer the question asked of you.  Where do I go to find this “Good ole boy network”?

Also -

In the above post you expect me to research to support your allegations.  That is not going to happen.  You claim that Highlands county courts are corrupt.  Where is your PROOF?  Thomas Jefferson quotes are not proof.  If your only proof of corruption is in your personal case in which you lost then let’s hear the EXACT details with names of court professionals that are corrupt.  Quit avoiding the issue here and support your allegations with actual facts.

gritshifter - 03 December 2007 08:54 AM

You are dodging my question Tstarkey.  Please answer the question asked of you.  Where do I go to find this “Good ole boy network”?

Also -

In the above post you expect me to research to support your allegations.  That is not going to happen.  You claim that Highlands county courts are corrupt.  Where is your PROOF?  Thomas Jefferson quotes are not proof.  If your only proof of corruption is in your personal case in which you lost then let’s hear the EXACT details with names of court professionals that are corrupt.  Quit avoiding the issue here and support your allegations with actual facts.

Gritz,
Well, I can’t have any more evidence than I personally witnessed and anecdotal statements from others, all of which I will provide you in due course. I think I alluded to the fact that I would provide personal observations earlier when I stated that I would mention the names of specific Judges that I thought should be removed from office at the first opportunity.

However, the issue here is not my case as this is not the topic of this forum. The issue is The Judicial Branch of Florida Government. I must confess that my personal experiences and subsequent disillusionment with the local Court led me to learn more about how this system operates, why it operates the way it does, and who it actually serves. Isn’t this how it always happens?

In truth, man is not made to be trusted for life, if secured against all liability to account.
--Thomas Jefferson, 1823

I do think that residents in Highlands County and elsewhere should infer that there is corruption in the State Judiciary by virtue of the fact that they do not get legitimate judicial choices at the time of “election.” It is clear from previously copied and pasted information by Sportylady that the Judicial Branch of Florida Government would like for residents of the State to believe that contested Judicial elections are the norm and not the rare, rare exception. I can only think WOW when I go through other States and see sign after sign supporting individuals competing for judicial offices. I think to myself, “These citizens really do have choices in who their Judges are going to be!”

I would like to clarify my previous comment to state that I think the dishonesty, bias, and otherwise, failure of the Court to meet its responsibilities is more a characteristic of the smaller, rural courts in Florida such as those in Highlands and Hardee Counties. I may discuss this further but I do think that incoming residents should be aware that they may be facing insurmountable obstacles if a situation ever arises where they need to litigate in the local court against someone whose family has lived in the area for more than one generation, or who otherwise is politically well-connected. Most of these small town lawyers and Judges grew up together or their families have ties that go back 30, 40, 50 years or more. That is just not something a new resident is going to realize or be able to overcome until it is too late. It is clearly a very clannish area and the current makeup of the Court and systemic flaws do help perpetuate the continuation of this injustice.

I’ll respond more directly to your request for specific information soon. First, however, I want to discuss the evidence that I have found that indicates that children in Florida may be suffering under this current system which allows citizens so little control over this branch of government.

I didn’t mean to add a comment here.

gritshifter - 03 December 2007 08:54 AM

You are dodging my question Tstarkey.  Please answer the question asked of you.

Gritz,
The question you asked was, “Where do I go to find this “Good ole boy network”?”

The definition of a “good ol boy network” is as follows, excerpted from Wikipedia, and a good one I might add:

“The good ol’ boy network describes a system of social networking and perceptions alleged to exist prevalently among certain communities and social strata. It is typically taken to refer to informal legal, judicial, social, religious, business, and political associations. In some areas, the good ol’ boy network is said to still exert considerable influence over many aspects of local government, business, and law enforcement. Usage of the term can often imply a wrongful exclusion of others from the network. Some negative effects of the good ol’ boy network are its exclusion of others, leading to leaders of a community possibly limiting business transactions to other elites, or to friends or acquaintances from within the network, to give friends better deals, and generally to reinforce traditional power structures over any other elements in the society. The network also functions like any other social network inasmuch as governmental, business, and professional connections and concessions often develop via mutual friendships and introductions established through the network.”

The term as used in the context of this topic is intended to apply to the legal and political professions including but not limited to the State Judiciary, and the regulatory process that currently governs this institution. My focus here is on the disciplinary process for lawyers and Judges, and on the selection process for Judges. My purpose for introducing and discussing this topic in this forum is to educate the readers of the forum as to how this system operates, who benefits from its’ current operations, and who is hurt in the process. In refernce to Judicial selection, unfortunately, one of the negative effects of this “good ol’ boy network’ is the exclusion of the vast majority residents in the selection process.

As stated, I’ve been drawn into this pursuit based on my personal experiences and observations. However, my motivation for tackling this issue should not diminish the importance of or invalidite my findings or conclusions. I believe they should be evaluated based on their content and merit. This is why I keep trying to entice you into a substantive discussion of my findings, but all you want to talk about are my personal experiences. I have no doubt that there are many who feel the way that I do as I’ve talked to many, but for one reason or another they do not express themselves here.

So the answer to your question is as follows: It is a social network, so you probably will not find the network in any specific location. However, I suggest in this holiday season you may find several members of this social network gathering on any given night at someone’s house celebrating the holiday season. I also learned several years ago that if you listen carefully you may gain some insight into the process. Several years ago, I read in the newspaper, that a local Judge was at a Christmas party and was allegedly discussing a pending case with some other “legal professionals.” Evidently, one of the parties in the case had decided to retain a law firm from out of the area. Well, this Judge is quoted as allegedly making the statement, “I’m not going to let some out of town lawyers come in here and “run roughshod” over the local Bar.” While this is not conclusive evidence of a “good ol’ boy network,” it is food for thought.

Lastly, I’ll mention the names and justify my positions on them soon. I want to discuss something more important first.

Based on my personal observations and reading, I am concerned that the lack of residents control over the Judiciary in Florida leads to unintended and undesirable consequences not only for adults in the State, but our State’s children as well. I have only taken a brief look at relevant facts but let me tell you what I’ve learned so far.

I looked at the aforementioned First Star report released at a Congressional briefing in Washington earlier this year. As stated in previous comments, First Star, a leading national child advocacy organization, released this study, which found “glaring anomalies” in how states protect the legal rights of children in abuse, neglect, and dependency cases, leading to substandard levels of service and unacceptable outcomes in several states. Florida received an “F” in this report. Five states received an “A”, New York, Connecticut, West Virginia, Louisiana, and Mississippi.

As my personal experience has lead me to believe that our residents lack of control over the Judicial Branch of Government is not in the best interests of our residents including our children, I thought it would be revealing to look at the States who scored well in this report of how the children of those States are protected by the Court, and compare this to their residents level of control over their respective State Judges. Specifically, I looked at whether they could select their trial court and county Judges through election in these five States or if they were appointed as is the norm in Florida.

Here is what I found. Four of these five States that do an excellent job of protecting their children elect their Judges at the local level and do not use appointments to fill interim vacancies as is practiced in the State of Florida. In other words, the residents of these States have greater control over their Judges than we do so their Judges are held accountable for their decisions by the people. We currently cannot hold our local Judges accountable and our children suffer as a consequence.

I’ve concluded that it is quite likely that the level of judicial republicanism (control by the people) is correlated to the level of legal protection we provide our children in Florida. The more control the people have over their Judges through Judicial elections, the greater protections our State’s children will have.

This is work in progress so I’ll clean this up and simplify it later.

tstarkey - 04 December 2007 07:10 PM

Gritz,
The question you asked was, “Where do I go to find this “Good ole boy network”?”

The definition of a “good ol boy network” is as follows, excerpted from Wikipedia, and a good one I might add:

“The good ol’ boy network describes a system of social networking and perceptions alleged to exist prevalently among certain communities and social strata. It is typically taken to refer to informal legal, judicial, social, religious, business, and political associations. In some areas, the good ol’ boy network is said to still exert considerable influence over many aspects of local government, business, and law enforcement. Usage of the term can often imply a wrongful exclusion of others from the network. Some negative effects of the good ol’ boy network are its exclusion of others, leading to leaders of a community possibly limiting business transactions to other elites, or to friends or acquaintances from within the network, to give friends better deals, and generally to reinforce traditional power structures over any other elements in the society. The network also functions like any other social network inasmuch as governmental, business, and professional connections and concessions often develop via mutual friendships and introductions established through the network.”

The term as used in the context of this topic is intended to apply to the legal and political professions including but not limited to the State Judiciary, and the regulatory process that currently governs this institution. My focus here is on the disciplinary process for lawyers and Judges, and on the selection process for Judges. My purpose for introducing and discussing this topic in this forum is to educate the readers of the forum as to how this system operates, who benefits from its’ current operations, and who is hurt in the process. In refernce to Judicial selection, unfortunately, one of the negative effects of this “good ol’ boy network’ is the exclusion of the vast majority residents in the selection process.

As stated, I’ve been drawn into this pursuit based on my personal experiences and observations. However, my motivation for tackling this issue should not diminish the importance of or invalidite my findings or conclusions. I believe they should be evaluated based on their content and merit. This is why I keep trying to entice you into a substantive discussion of my findings, but all you want to talk about are my personal experiences. I have no doubt that there are many who feel the way that I do as I’ve talked to many, but for one reason or another they do not express themselves here.

So the answer to your question is as follows: It is a social network, so you probably will not find the network in any specific location. However, I suggest in this holiday season you may find several members of this social network gathering on any given night at someone’s house celebrating the holiday season. I also learned several years ago that if you listen carefully you may gain some insight into the process. Several years ago, I read in the newspaper, that a local Judge was at a Christmas party and was allegedly discussing a pending case with some other “legal professionals.” Evidently, one of the parties in the case had decided to retain a law firm from out of the area. Well, this Judge is quoted as allegedly making the statement, “I’m not going to let some out of town lawyers come in here and “run roughshod” over the local Bar.” While this is not conclusive evidence of a “good ol’ boy network,” it is food for thought.

Lastly, I’ll mention the names and justify my positions on them soon. I want to discuss something more important first.

That is a very nice definition.  Exactly how is this network corrupting our local court house?  In answer to my question, you suggest that I infiltrate court professionals’ homes to find this network.  That is simply rididculous. 

You have claimed that through personal experience and the research that followed, you have found evidence of corruption in our local legal system.  Where did you find this information?  In what newspaper did you read the above article that you are summarizing?  Will you ever offer any substantial proof of corruption?

You keep saying that you will post the names and evidence of corruption soon.  I suggest you commit to a specific date and quit stalling.

"That is a very nice definition. Exactly how is this network corrupting our local court house? In answer to my question, you suggest that I infiltrate court professionals’ homes to find this network. That is simply rididculous.

You have claimed that through personal experience and the research that followed, you have found evidence of corruption in our local legal system. Where did you find this information? In what newspaper did you read the above article that you are summarizing? Will you ever offer any substantial proof of corruption?

You keep saying that you will post the names and evidence of corruption soon. I suggest you commit to a specific date and quit stalling.” -grits

Grits,
Thanks for the comments and questions. I’ll address your questions either here or in my next series of comments without failure. But, I’ll intermingle a couple of comments of my own as I do so.

In regards to the article, I’m not sure if I read it in the Highlands Today or the other paper, but I have always gotten most of my local information here. I’m also not sure of the case but my recollection was it was a civil case around 2000 or thereabouts. I do remember it was just when I was beginning to realize that our Judiciary did not operate as my understanding of the Bible or 8th grade Social Studies had led me to believe. I seem to remember that the allegation was made in a Court filing requesting a change of venue and the source requested anonymity due to the nature of the position of the the person who allegedly heard the statement. I’ve got an idea who the Judge was but can’t state that for certain either. I’m sure other know more than I do about this. My recollection was that the request for a change of venue was granted but like I said I’m not quite sure. I am quite sure that my recollections are correct.

I’ll keep addressing your last comment through completion. However, my personal observations and experience may not be a big deal to others as this was only a single isolated family law case and may not qualify as newsworthy “corruption”, but to me and my children it was a life changing series of events. So I will get to that fairly soon, but I’ll keep responding to your questions first.

In reference to my last entry, I was going to “quantify the unquantifiable,” but realized that I needed to brush up on my quantification skills first. Basically though, if five States receive an “A” for protecting children’s rights, four of those five States elect their local Judges without merit selection or retention, and only sixteen of fifty States select their Judges in this way, then I think that it can be statistically shown that these are not independent events but are correlated in some way.

tstarkey - 06 December 2007 10:06 PM

I’ll keep addressing your last comment through completion. However, my personal observations and experience may not be a big deal to others as this was only a single isolated family law case and may not qualify as newsworthy “corruption”, but to me and my children it was a life changing series of events. So I will get to that fairly soon, but I’ll keep responding to your questions first.

Soon....soon....soon.

As the saying goes....Tomorrow never comes.

Gritz,
You have asked, “How is this (good ol boy) network corrupting our local court house?” Let me answer you in the following way.
What you are referring to is “political corruption” in the 10th Judicial Circuit and specifically in the Highlands County Court. In general, political corruption can take various forms and can infect any level of government when conditions are favorable for its’ development. These forms of corruption vary including but not limited to bribery, extortion, graft, and embezzlement, and these are the ones that when discovered make the newspapers. However, there is one other form called patronage, which includes in addition to the legal patronage by the executive branch of government, nepotism and cronyism. When left unaddressed, political corruption leads to kleptocracy, or literally “rule by thieves.”
What we are discussing here is political corruption in the Judicial Branch of Florida State Government. This corruption compromises the rule of law. The conditions which appear to have favored this political corruption in our Judicial Branch includes those that I have previously discussed, specifically a lack of accountability or control by the residents of Florida over this branch of government. This lack of control includes both the “good ol boys” selecting our Judges for life which helps conceal the corruption and favoritism, and the self-regulating aspect of this flawed system. Contributing factors which I have identified as leading to this corruption are certain aspects of the patronage system including but not limited to cronyism, decision making with a partiality to longstanding friends.
I’m at this point disinclined to discuss my personal observations for the following reason. As you know, we have a Presidential election coming up this year. I believe several Judges in our area which I do not believe are deserving of these positions of great trust will be up for reelection, and will be reelected unopposed or without significant local opposition. At this time, it seems pointless to complain about the specific corruption I have seen when I know that these Judges will be reelected and continue on their merry way serving only themselves and the other “good ol boys” (and gals) within their network..

So, the answer is, by way of cronyism.

tstarkey - 04 December 2007 07:10 PM

I’ll mention the names and justify my positions on them soon.

Still waiting Starkey.

Gritz,
“I’m at this point disinclined to discuss my personal observations for the following reason. As you know, we have a Presidential election coming up this year. I believe several Judges in our area which I do not believe are deserving of these positions of great trust will be up for reelection, and will be reelected unopposed or without significant local opposition. At this time, it seems pointless to complain about the specific corruption I have seen when I know that these Judges will be reelected and continue on their merry way serving only themselves and the other “good ol boys” (and gals) within their network.”
After reconsidering the issue, I’m not going to discuss the complaints against sitting Judges at this time, but I do want to discuss how the local as well as state judicial system is susceptible to corruption and how this corruption undermines the “Rule of Law” in this jurisdiction and throughout the State. I think I’ve pointed out a number of problems that Floridians currently face due to the absolute and unrestrained power of the State Judiciary and the harmful effects it is having on adults and children in Florida.
If I could see some evidence of any competitive Judicial Elections on the horizon for the 10th Judicial Circuit believe me I would be the first to “spill the beans.” At this point, what is the point?