Rays officials have released their proposed plans for a new waterfront stadium.

Are you excited about the new design, or do you want the team to keep its current stadium? Do you agree with the plans for redeveloping the site of Tropicana Field?

Share your thoughts on the Rays’ future home here.

I hope the team and developers realize that building a new stadium is not going to generate greater attendance.  People from Pasco, most of Tampa and Orlando are still not going to make the drive to downtown St. Pete, regardless.  We live in Pasco and are pretty big baseball fans.  Still not going to drive an hour and a half to get there.

I live in Washington, DC but I still have a place on St. Pete Beach. The Trop never should have been built in the first place. There were too many mistakes made with the whole process in the first place.

I agree that Tampa would have been the best place for a baseball stadium - that said the Al Lang site would be one of the most beautiful in all of sports. It would give the Rays and the people of St. Pete a first class building that they can be proud of.

The private funding part could be closer to $200 million but I hope they get creative and build the park, in the end will be good for the community and the team.

I moved to this area in 1996 and remember the countdown billboards to the first Devil Rays games.  Since that time I have attended a few games, mostly because for professional sports, it is somewhat affordable for the normal person.  Of all the games I’ve been to see, for the most part the stadium was almost empty.  I can not believe that one could even consider spending more of our already spread too thin tax dollars on a new stadium.  In the event the taxpayers let that happen, will the middle class working guy be able to afford a ticket then?  Let’s put that money to better use....

As a baseball fan I’m all for the Rays building a new downtown stadium.  New stadiums in other cities including Baltimore, Cleveland and Detroit not only spurred positive urban economic development, it has also let to more revenue for the owners to field a better team.  Issues including parking and congestion have been overcome in every other city that has built a new stadium so there is no reason they can’t be over come here.  I’ve also been an advocate of building a baseball stadium in the area that is outdoors with some type of retractable roof, so I am pleased that is in the current plan.  The Trop is not an enjoyable place to watch a game.  It’s a pit.  The canvass cover in the new plans will provide a much need relief from thunderstorms.  The major issue with the new plan is that the seating capacity, at 34,000, is too small.  It’s built for today’s Rays, a perennial last place team.  Games in the summer against the Yankees or the Red Sox have been sold out or close to sold out at the Trop.  We need a stadium with capacity for tomorrow’s contending Rays.  When (hopefully not if) the Rays become contenders, a 34,000 seat stadium will be bad for fans that can get tickets and limit revenue for the team.  Additionally, the player post season bonuses this year were less than last since bonuses are based on post season ticket revenue and Fenway Park has the lowest seating capacity in the league.  What’s more, when (not if) the Ray’s make the post season as many residents as possible should have access to tickets.  However, in the playoffs, after the teams, press and networks get their allocated tickets to games in a 34,000 seat stadium that won’t leave a lot left over for the local fan.  Let’s do this right.  Build a stadium with 45,000 seats and sufficient luxury sweets to maximize revenue enabling ownership to field a play off caliber team.  If don’t correctly this has the potential to make me forget my New York (Yankee) roots and become a real Rays fan.

Imagine… sweating, sitting in the hot sun… or… melting on a sweltering August night.... or… even better… enjoying a rocking florida thunderstorm in the middle of the 7th inning…

I bet the Boston and New York fans are going to be so happy with the outdoor air conditioning.. they are always so nice and friendly, and they love everything about the south… it will be so nice to hear what they have to say the first time they have to sit through a game at 98 degrees… they will LOVE IT!!  Woo Hoo!!!

Go Rays.

Can we expect a few wins with a new stadium?
Is it going to magically make you better players?
Is the Trop holding you back?
I just don’t get it.

Clarisa Gerlach - 28 November 2007 09:51 AM

Rays officials have released their proposed plans for a new waterfront stadium.

Are you excited about the new design, or do you want the team to keep its current stadium? Do you agree with the plans for redeveloping the site of Tropicana Field?

Share your thoughts on the Rays’ future home here.

I’d like to see them win a few and prove they are worth it.

The new design is great but everyone who contests it says they will demolish a building to do so. The fact is they will demolish two. Tropicana Field will go too. I don’t think that is the real issue though. The issue is that St. Pete is not in a good geographic area to accomidate fans. This is why they don’t pull in the fans. (Also the owner will not spend money for a good team.) I think that the team should give serious consideration to building a stadium in the I4/I75 area around the State Fairgrounds. This would be that much closer to a larger population. It will also pull more fans from the Orlando area.

So, the oft-discussed $150 million contribution from the Rays is not cash but a promise to pay something closer to a market rent in the future. The Rays will likely recover this amount (and maybe more) from naming rights, luxury suite revenues and revenue-sharing from more successful teams. If St. Pete taxpayers go along, the Rays will be able to continue to be financially sucessful and won’t ever have to even try to field a decent team.

I think this thing is going to be built no matter what the whiners and complainers say about the inconveniences of driving to St. Pete.  I think it’s all an excuse because if you have a nice facility with a decent team, which they are not now, people will come no matter what or where.  It’s a way nicer location then anywhere in Tampa and that isn’t even a far stretch.  If people would actually visit downtown St. Pete, they might actually see why it’s a booming area.

That stadium would not only look great in the Channelside District, but it would be far more practical.  The way I see it—The Rays will negotiate with the City of St. Pete to no avail, and then Mayor Iorio will entice the team to move over to Tampa.  Let’s look at logistics… there are hundreds of vacant condos in downtown and downtown revitilization projects are being put on hold.  Build a stadium in Tampa’s Downtown—the more prosperous, parking abundant city—and people will come.  It’s a more central location to attract far more fans, not to mention the neighboring business districts.  Go to a game after work.  And it’s just the excuse that Iorio and HART have been looking for to expand the seldom ridden streetcars.  Look at the San Francisco model… A waterfront stadium where people actually take the train or other transit to from the neighboring business district.  And they’re not a “quality” team perse.  Build up the team and assuredly people will come.

But I do think that the stadium needs to be bigger—so long as the city wants to host an all-star game.  And the sail covering is innovative, but it’s the lightning storms that fans need protection against.  And I don’t think the sail offers that.

Sternberg is on record that he started thinking about a new stadium his second day as Rays principal owner.  Now, some 18 months later, he has come up with a plan that imposes 100% of the cost and 100% of the risk on taxpayers despite the fact that he and his co-owners are very wealthy individuals.  Obviously, fielding a better team is simply not on his radar screen and anyone who thinks that another major infusion of public cash for facilities is going to somehow produce better results on the field is a fool.  Also, although regular fans will be “treated” to the pleasures of summertime in Florida, you can be sure that luxury suite holders will not suffer any outdoor heat or humidity.

Why is the proposed stadium much smaller than the existing one?  The basic reason is they don’t want to have a lot of ordinary people coming to the games but only a few high-rollers who will be doing “business entertaining” and paying much more.

The only trick is getting regular taxpayers to provide prime real estate for a private venture and foot the bill for a facility built solely for the benefit of the wealthy.

I am a 2 year resident of St. Pete.  I come from Cleveland, and I love baseball.

To understand this deal, we need perspective.  I offer my background as an example.

My first game was when I was 13 years old, and my dad took me to see the Indians at Cleveland Municipal Stadium.  That place was huge, 80,000 seats for baseball.  My dad didn’t want to go because he said the indians were losers and had been his whole life.  This was 1985.

There was only 1 guy in the entire centerfield stands, and he was banging a drum the whole game.  The Indians played hard, but were down 4-2 in the 8th inning.  I got to move down and sit right beside their dugout, and when Joe Carter hit a home run that won I got a high five from a couple of players.  I became a lifelong fan.  Although I didn’t get to go to another game until 1993.

In 1989, I heard that the Tribe was moving to St. Pete because of the stadium.  I was heartbroken, but anyone could plainly see why the Indians were going to move.  But everyone came together and decided to build Jacob’s Field.

In 1993 my girlfriend got box seats to several Indians game including the final weekend.  ( I married her for that) The Tribe was getting interesting, but the stadium was a complete dump.  I never realized it until my wife surprised me with tickets to see the Tribe play a sold out game against the Yankees in 94.  Then I realized how baseball was to be played.  Jacob’s field was beautiful, and to top it off, free agents suddenly wanted to come to Cleveland.  Eddie Murray, Dennis Martinez and Orel Hershiser rewarded me with a world series visit in 1995 and the rest was history.

Jacob’s field became a catalyst that drove development all over the lower downtown neighborhood in Cleveland.  Restaurants, and other amenities just sprang up in what was once a really bad neighborhood.  The indians had 455 straight sellouts, and they used that money to win 7 straight division titles, 8 playoff appearances, 2 ALCS appearances and 2 world Series appearances.  In fact, they are still using this revenue, as the recent playoff run indicated.

Why is all this important?  Because the Tampa Bay Rays are much like those indians I fell in love with so long ago.  They have promise, and a habit of making life hard on the Yankees.  They also have a bandbox stadium that sits out there unconnected with anything like it was some weird spaceship that just landed.

I believe that the Rays will be competitive.  But in order for that to happen, we need to get this done.  This will put the Rays on the map as a serious baseball team, and a legitimate destination for players.

In addition, St. Pete needs to get this done.  Putting 20-30 thousand fans in downtown st. petersburg will present a lot of questions:

Where will they all eat?
Where will they all park?

The answers to those questions my friends will mean lots of money to the city.  Downtown will be hopping and it will integrate the baseball game and the community and will drive businesses that will provide those services.  And for those of us, who don’t want to pay for parking, we can always take the bus.

On the other end, the parking lots at the Trop represent an uncapitalized asset.  They are not generating any revenue for the team or the city.  And they isolate the dome in ways which exclude it from the surrounding neighborhood.  Adding that space to the tax roles, while utilizng space that is already in the public domain at Al Lang seems like a win win to me.

In short, the idea that there is no public benefit in all of this is stupid.

As for those who are worried about the heat, i will say this:  Get over it.  It is hot in Florida, but it is also hot everywhere else too.

As for those who want the new stadium in Tampa, i say this:  Get over yourselves.  I have been to Tampa.  I have driven there.  It is not that nice.  Every-time I am there all I can do is think of getting home as fast as I can.  I don’t understand where this Tampa manifest destiny comes from, but I see no logical reason for it.

All that said, there are somethings I suggest changing:

The formula should be this:

150 Million Team contribution collected like this:  10 Million/ Year for 20 years to repay city issued bonds + interest and related costs.  This should generate $150 million after debt service.
200 Million from Sale and redevelopment of Trop site.  Redirect future tax revenue from trop site to retire trop debt.  Cap this revenue contribution at 200 million total.
50 Million from ticket surcharge :  1 dollar for every ticket times 20,000 tickets = 20,000 * 81 games times 20 years = 48 million dollars
50 Million from surcharge on food and merchandise sold at game over next 20 years.
Rays agree to be responsible for every dollar of cost overruns.  I would give naming rights, subject to city approval to the team.  should be worth 10-20 million over 20 years.

Total = 450 Million

The beauty is that the Rays will take the risks here.  20,000 tix means that they had better do their jobs delivering the promise of a competitive team.

Also the City should sign the Rays to an ironclad Lease extension which requires a minimum of 81 games to be played within the City of St. Pete until 2057.  After 2027, when all debts for the stadium are paid off, when the City and the Rays should ensure that adequate maintenance and improvements are made to keep the stadium viable for the next 50 years.

So what do you say Rays?  Deal?

Starscream,

If the Rays were on board with your proposal - it would be a lot more agreeable.  BUT they’re not.

So let’s look at the deal as it exists today:

- The Rays redevelop TWO public parcels that they DONT own and keep all the profits.
- Property taxes from the newly redeveloped parcels are funnelled to support the team/stadium.
- The Rays only contribution is $150M in rent payments. 
- The public assumes all the cost and all the risk
- The Rays keep all the revenue.

Sound fair?

I’ll never understand why some fans can’t separate supporting the team from being a village idiot who wants to write blank checks for them.

If you proposed that all St. Pete’s residents who funded this plan get free lower box season tickets what do you think the Rays would say?

Stop being a puppet - think.

Thomas - 30 November 2007 04:08 PM

Starscream,

If the Rays were on board with your proposal - it would be a lot more agreeable.  BUT they’re not.

So let’s look at the deal as it exists today:

- The Rays redevelop TWO public parcels that they DONT own and keep all the profits.
- Property taxes from the newly redeveloped parcels are funnelled to support the team/stadium.
- The Rays only contribution is $150M in rent payments. 
- The public assumes all the cost and all the risk
- The Rays keep all the revenue.

Sound fair?

I’ll never understand why some fans can’t separate supporting the team from being a village idiot who wants to write blank checks for them.

If you proposed that all St. Pete’s residents who funded this plan get free lower box season tickets what do you think the Rays would say?

Stop being a puppet - think.

I am thinking.  I think that their proposal is a starting point for negotiations.  I gave you what I think would be my starting point if I am the City.  My point is, it is a nice idea, so let’s negotiate.  But to summarily reject the whole deal without exploring it is unreasonable and shortsighted. 

I also think that your summary of the Rays position is not supported by the facts.

After all, this deal is all about the money.  I agree, that the Rays funding plan as presently constituted is not gonna fly.  But it could if we look at it this way:

250 Million from sale of Trop and future tax revenue from redevelopment of the site. Iffy, but doable under the right conditions.  My concern would be the retirement of the Trop debt and an ironclad limitation of the public liability.

60 Million in a second Sales tax rebate.  Dead on arrival.  Simply not gonna happen.  The Rays are going to have to look somewhere else.

150 million team contribution be generated by bond issue backed by increase in team rent payments over next 15 years. Doable.  But make it 20 years to cover interest and other costs.  Also team needs to account for what happens if they default.

That is 2 doables and and a hole of between $60-100 Million.  It is definitely worth talking about.