Goodness, I cannot believe someone agrees with me that Clayton should move up the depth chart and play again. People keep saying he is not performing, but when not playing, that is not the complete picture.  Does anyone remember who caught the only pass in the first drive of the playoff game against the Giants?  Yes, it was M. Clayton for 11 yards up the middle for a first down.  The rest was Earnest Graham running. 

Clayton is Ike Hillard’s replacement if everything works out. He was blocking well and catching everything thrown his way this year that was catchable. 

QB - I am sure the Bucs will go out and pick up someone else as they do everywhere.  Cleveland would be nice, but certain things would have to happen to get Quinn or Anderson.  Simms may stay around if the ownership wants him.  Finally, McCown as has been stated has to show more but he does look promising so far.

This Bucs team is in the middle of rebuilding with young players. If they can continue to draft young players successfully then it can be a successful franchise for Gruden/Allen.  Next year will be a big challange with the AFC West on the schedule (not so much NFC West) and Green Bay and Dallas on the schedule.

God. Don’t tell Deumig that Gruden and Allen might be able to build through the draft. It will be too much of a shock to his system. Again, I hear this guy and/or his devoted listeners complaining that he can’t develop players....and yet, I’m seeing quite a few young players that we’ve drafted on offense who seem to be performing quite well (and, yes, I’m including Michael Clayton on this list). Certainly, our newly formed offensive line hasn’t performed well for such a young bunch. Not at all.

I’m going to reinforce this statement, for the record: For anyone who says Gruden can’t develop a Quarterback, I point to the fact that the ONE Quarterback he’s ever been in position to develop throws sidearm and, until last year, was EXTREMELY happy in the feet. You can only fix so much......Conversely, as the coach, you can’t try to fit a square peg through a round hole. Still, one player isn’t enough to establish a trend.

Gruden and Allen are very close friends from way back. So no matter what everybody else thinks or says it really can’t hold water. We all have our opinions and some of the suggestions have a lot of merit. However, when it comes down to the nitty gritty, Gruden and Allen will make the decisions. If Gruden remains as Headcoach the way the Bucs play, it will be a repeat year next year, unless he is fortunate enought to fill some key spots with some very talented players. Garcia is a good quarterback when he is properly protected, but if he gets slammed a few times and sacked on top of it he will not want to stay in there and take a beating, and I don’t blame him one bit. He needs a good backup about 6’5” and weighing in around 235 or so with a good strong arm, and can be able to take a good hit. Maybe they just might be able to salvage Garcia, and the backup quarterback. They both will need more protection so they can do their jobs and make plays. So the front offensive line needs to beefed up with good muscle and speed to protect the quarterback. Enough said!

que?

Well it’s official both Gruden and Allen have extended contracts until 2011. I sure hope whoever made that decision knew what they were doing. Only time will tell. I hope they gave them an open check-book to select the players they need to fill key positions, and obtain the right persons that can do what they will be paid for. I truly wish them luck, because we can’t do anything else unless they really screw up. The Bucs need a winning season, everybody knows that. Last year was a marginal season at best, another like that one, and fans and owners will be very disappointed in Allen and Gruden. So constructive critisms hopefully will be made to assist the teams morale if nothing else.

Giles88 here are the reasons for my selections…

Keys to Tampa Bay Buccaneers Future Success

Sign Daunte Culpepper QB, Raiders as a backup to Jeff Garcia
Trade Chris Simms QB, Bucs for Lance Briggs LB, Bears or Bernard Berrian WR, Bears
Sign Chad Johnson WR, Bengals
Sign Muhsin Muhammad WR, Bears
Sign Albert Haynesworth, DT, Titans,
Sign Justin Smith, DE, Bengals
Cut/Trade Michael Clayton WR, Bucs
Draft the best available shutdown corner in the 2008 second round draft.
Draft the best available Tackle in the 2008 first round draft.

1. Daunte Culpepper (Raiders) is a stronger, faster and more accurate Rich Gannon style QB and the type of player that would flourish in Gruden’s system when his number is called.

2. A Chris Simms trade for Lance Briggs (Bears) or Bernard Berrian (Bears) would make sense if we could talk the Bears into such a trade plus some player compensation (i.e. Brian Kelly).  They need an accurate deep threat QB with an upside and we need a fast WR to complement Joey Galloway and monster LB to stop the run and blitz the QB.  Lance Briggs fits our scheme perfectly and he wants out of Chicago.

3. Chad Johnson (Bengals) wants out of Cincinnati.  The Bengals might be willing to let him go for a 3rd or 4th round pick or/plus a defensive player on a our roster like Brian Kelly that wants out of Tampa or maybe Jeremiah Trotter, Patrick Chukwurah or Greg Spires.  Here are my reasons for this signing; Chad Johnson racked up 559 receptions for 8,365 yards and 49 touchdown passes in Cincinnati. Ocho Cinco has plenty remaining in his tank and combined with Joey Galloway we would have a legitimate deep threat.  Defenses would have to pick their poison defending: Joey Galloway, Chad Johnson, Jerramy Stevens, Alex Smith, Ike Hilliard and Earnest Graham splitting equal time with Cadillac Williams.  Keeping eight men in the box would no longer be an option for defenses and the Bucs could finally run some three and four receiver sets!

4. Muhsin Muhammad (Bears) is still one of the best possession receivers in the NFL.  He would be what Keyshawn Johnson brought to the Bucs over the middle; a player who has sure hands and won’t drop the pass in coverage.

5. Albert Haynesworth (Titans) would give the Bucs the type of front four pressure that we haven’t seen in a few years and not sense the glory days of Sapp, McFarland, Ahanotu and Brad Culpepper.  The type of pressure that would get the opposing QB on his back often and early, for three and outs- Buccaneer Ball.

6. Justin Smith (Bengals) is another monster that would complement our defense and put heat on the QB and the run stop.  Unless they put the franchise tag on him, he will likely wind up somewhere else…why not with Tampa?

7. Michael Clayton has had his opportunities and now it’s time to let some of the younger guys on the roster have their opportunity.  He is often injured and not very dependable when we need him.  I would like to see what Paris Warren, Maurice Stovall, Chad Lucas and Micheal Spurlock can do.

8. I made an error in my first post, I mistakenly posted “draft the best available shutdown corner in the 2008 first round draft” when that was supposed to be in the second round (i.e. Brian Kelly).  Likewise, it was supposed to read; draft the best available Tackle in the 2008 first round draft.

With these FA signings/trades, the Bucs would have the No.1 ranked defense for years to come and a “Top 5 Offense” for the foreseeable future!  The Bucs would certainly be the NFC team to beat!

WindyCityBucFan - 04 February 2008 12:56 PM

Giles88 here are the reasons for my selections…

Keys to Tampa Bay Buccaneers Future Success

Sign Daunte Culpepper QB, Raiders as a backup to Jeff Garcia
Trade Chris Simms QB, Bucs for Lance Briggs LB, Bears or Bernard Berrian WR, Bears
Sign Chad Johnson WR, Bengals
Sign Muhsin Muhammad WR, Bears
Sign Albert Haynesworth, DT, Titans,
Sign Justin Smith, DE, Bengals
Cut/Trade Michael Clayton WR, Bucs
Draft the best available shutdown corner in the 2008 second round draft.
Draft the best available Tackle in the 2008 first round draft.

With these FA signings/trades, the Bucs would have the No.1 ranked defense for years to come and a “Top 5 Offense” for the foreseeable future!  The Bucs would certainly be the NFC team to beat!

Okay, this interesting and thought through a worth a few comments.  First, you are very creative and have a lot of interesting ideas.  Some concerns I would have however, if I am Gruden/Allen and looking at this list:

1) Daunte Culpepper has not been able to hold down a starting job two years running in Miami (which desparately needs a QB) and the Oakland Raiders (not much better in the QB position).  Ever since his injury in Minnisota in 2006 he has played poorly. Odds are not good that he will solve much anything in Tampa. Bucs need a long term solution in the backup slot, not another short term solution (one that is not playing well at all ).  For QB either draft someone, pick up one of Cleveland’s two QBs, or go with a gamble and Luke McCown.  I will say this - don’t get Culpepper if looking for a backup.  I think Luke McCown proved he can play backup and if he cuts out a few mistakes, can be an excellent starting QB.  Despite two horrendous errors against the Saints he still got them the win with that last two minute drive following a defense turnover (I admit, the Saints made the worst play in history but the fact is - he took advantage of it and led the team to victory in the air).

2) Chris Simms may not be under Allen/Gruden’s control - that may be an ownership issue if you believe reports before the season started that the Glazier’s want to keep him around.  Interesting alternative presented nonetheless and I don’t necessarily disagree with it.

3) Chad Johnson is interesting - but I am not sure if Cincinnatti will let him go despite the fact he wants out. Also, not sure if they would give him up for a pick that low… big questionmark, but it could be worth investigating.  Definately a good suggestion.

4) Muhsin Muhammad is declining and making fewer plays after 12 years.  I think the Bucs are better off giving the youngsters on the roster a shot as you state.  For the last three years, he has made 64, 60, and 40 catches.  Is he a free agent?  If the Bucs can bring him in at no cost and try him out in preseason, I don’t think it hurts but I would not give up anything for him.

5) Albert Haynesworth had been a disappointment until this year as a first round draft pick, and only had a total of 10 sacks over five years, something Sapp did regularly after his rookie year.  He did play better this year with 6 sacks, but Spires has done that himself (although not this year) and I would not put him in the same catagory as Sapp.  Interesting choice, definately a gamble for anyone to pick him up and expect a lot more out of him.

6) Justin Smith is a younger kind of player who has only played seven years, but had a severe fall off in sacks this year with only two. I have not watched him play so I don’t know what caused the fall off.  He could be a good pick up if he is available.

7) I like Michael Clayton and he played well when given the chance this year. I don’t remember seeing him drop anything that was catchable this year, and he still blocks almost as well as Keyshawn Johnson did back in the day.  He is a good posession receiver.  However, I do like what you said about getting the other receivers in the act.  Paris Warren looked fantastic until that devistating injury in the preseason - hope he comes back next year.  Muarice Stovall, also hurt, also hope he makes it back.  Chad Lucas we did not see much of and Michael Spurlock shows some promise as a relatively fast receiver.

Overall, you showed a lot of thought here and I found it fascinating.  I think some may be reaches but it is interesting overall.  I want to see who is available before I make any such FA comments of my own.

Free agents the Bucs might be interested in if they come to pass.  I will say my choices are expensive and may not be salary cap friendly.  They are just interesting names that I have seen that are coming available this year to one degree or another.

QB - Derek Anderson, RFA, Cleveland Browns - we all know about him, and it may become to expensive to keep both Derek and Brady Quinn around.  Perhaps take a look to see what it would cost to get him?  After this the best available QBs are Dante Culpepper (which I mention why above I don’t like him), Rex Grossman (am I the only one who finds it interesting that former Bucs QB Brian Griese is protected by Grossman is not - I guess is shows the disappointment in Rex), and Josh McCown of the Raiders.  I don’t like any of these choices but Cleveland’s two QBs

RB - Not sure if the Bucs are looking for this, as between the KC pickup of Bennett and Earnest Graham they have this covered. Many don’t know that Bennett is a free agent now and if the Bucs cannot resign him, they will need someone else not knowing Cadillac William’s status and Pittman is getting old.  Believe it or not, it is reported Michael Turner who is a great backup behind L. Tomlinson in San Diego is an unrestricted free agent - that could be a good pickup if the Bucs want to pay some big dollars for him.  Jamal Lewis is also an unrestricted free agent but now that he started to turn his career around there, he may not want to leave and he is a bigger risk than Turner. 

FB - Not as familiar to intellgiently comment here, and this is a bigger need for Tampa since Alstott is gone.  They did get a good free agent pickup for 2007, but need someone else for 2008 especially if Pitman does not come back.  I know that Brad Hoover UFA Carolina Panthers, Tony Richardson UFA Minnesota Vikings, and Derrick Wimbush RFA Jacksonville Jaguars are available.  I don’t know how good they are or if they are worth the cost.

WR - There are a million free agents this year, including unrestricted free agent Randy Moss believe it or not.  Highly unllikely any team but NE gets him, and although the Bucs need a younger speedster, I am not sure of the many WRs available they will find it in FA.  This may be a high draft pick for Tampa.

OL - Center is the biggest need here with the age of the current center, and I am not aware of any free agent’s available that fill that spot. I don’t possess great knowledge of this position, so I am passing on it.  This could also be a draft pick for Tampa.

DL - Jared Allen, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs.  He is younger and has a lot more sacks than Albert Haynesworth as mentioned above.  Probably will cost more too.  I don’t think Haynesworth is a bad option, just potentially more risky.  Either player would add substantial pressure on the line which improved this year with the youth movement.

LB - If the Bucs need help here (and I am not sure if this is a pressing need, although Brooks is not that young anymore), I have to say it is hard to do better than Lance Briggs, UFA, Chicago Bears.  The guy has about 100 tackles three years straight, gets a couple of sacks and fumbles in addition as well.  He would be a great fit for the Bucs and it is reported he wants out of Chicago.  Could be a good fit to replace Brooks who is nearing the end of his career. Then again, I doubt he would come to Tampa to play backup if Brooks were to play well enough for another year.

DB - Barber showed definate problems this year and Kelly’s injuries are not helping.  Phillip Buccanan was a very good pick up last year and it appears he is slowly replacing one of the positions and played very well for a “washed up” player.  Torrie Cox seemed to also play well and could fill the other position. I have already spent a lot of money elsewhere so perhaps the Bucs could pass on this this year.  Beleive it or not, both of the Patriot’s starting CBs are unrestricted free agents and there are plenty of other players available as well.  I think if the Bucs pick up anyone (and they may not here) there is a decent chance it will be in free agency (the names of the UFAs for the Patriots are Asante Samuel and Randall Gay.  With Randall however, the NY Jets want to steal him away - although we all know Bellicheck (Bellicheat) will do anything to keep him from that team.)

Kicking - I would pick up both a punter and kicker for competition, but not sure what. I would not give up anything to bring the competition in since neither of these appear to be pressing needs (Punter has been fantastic, kicker has a strong leg and is pretty accurate).

Okay random thoughts on my part, please feel free to tear this apart since I do not claim to know anything - just an interested fan and my perspective on all of this.

AcuraT:

Great comments and I would like to add…

1) Daunte Culpepper is a stud and was not completely healed while playing in Miami.  He is currently playing a style of “chuck & duck” with the Raider’s porous offensive line and even Joe Montana and Steve Young would look bad under center at Oakland.  Look at Rich Gannon and how he performed before joining Gruden.  Look at Culpepper while he was with the Vikings and imagine what he could do with a coaching/system change that fits his skills.  Jeff Garcia was a stud with the 49ers but he stunk up the joint with the Browns and Lions.  Gruden has a reputation for getting the most from his veteran signal callers.  Culpepper would flourish running Gruden’s offense when his number is eventually called.  I am not so certain about the current backups.  Regarding, Brady Quinn…what has he EVER done in the NFL to show that he can be “the guy”?  There is a reason why he was passed over by so many teams with a QB need in the draft.  He is overhyped and most clubs know it.  Regarding Rex Grossman...are you joking or what????

2) Chris Simms…you might be right because he’s clearly in Gruden’s dog house.

3) Chad Johnson is worth a 2nd round draft choice but the Bucs should package a 3rd OR 4th pick plus a player like Jeremiah Trotter, Patrick Chukwurah or Greg Spires to sweeten the deal.  Chad Johnson is a stud worth acquiring with the right scenario.  If not, Randy Moss will be a free agent as well and certainly worth investigating.

4) Muhsin Muhammad still has the skills to play well in the NFL.  The Bears simply threw the ball fewer times his way this season.  Also, with the QBs playing musical chairs in Chicago and the emergence of Bernard Berrian; he just didn’t see the field as often.  Still, he has a few more seasons in the tank and would be a great coach for the younger guys.

5) Albert Haynesworth has finally come into his zone and he is now a wrecking force.  Some players require more time and growth to fulfill their promising talent (look at Steve Young, Rich Gannon and even Brett Favre).  I would never imply that Haynesworth could hold Sapp’s “cup” during Warren’s prime…but he could be another dominate wrecking force for the Bucs.  If the price is right, I would pull the trigger on him.

6) Justin Smith would be a dangerous man playing in a Monte Kiffin defense but he may not survive the franchise tag.

7) I think Michael Clayton’s time is up and the Bucs should use the younger guys on the team or an experienced veteran for a possession receiver.  I don’t think Clayton is “the guy” and he has not been “the guy” since his breakout rookie season.  If we can get Paris Warren and or Maurice Stovall back I think they both have more upside.

In any event, I respect and appreciate your opinion.

Regarding the last couple of posts-

Daunte Culpepper is a stud...? Judging from what? The last 3 or 4 years when he couldn’t hold a starting spot away from Cleo Lemon and Josh McCown or the years when had argueably one of the most talented receivers to play the game and all he had to do was throw up a crapy pass and Moss would somehow catch it.

Albert Haynesworth finally decided to play hard in a contract year. Now somebody is going to pay him tons of money so he can go back to slacking again. He is a huge risk.

This should have been a huge year for Justin Smith as he was playing in a contract year and he completely flopped. I have no idea what to think of this guy. He plays for one of the worst defenses in the league so it’s hard to judge.

One other question I have is this. You want to go get Chad Johnson, Muhsin Muhammad, and Bernard Berrian but you also want to give our youger receivers a chance to play. That means we’ll have Galloway, Hilliard, Clayton, Stovall, Warren, Johnson, Muhammad, and Berrian. Not to mention our three tight ends. When exactly are the young guys gonna get their chance, how are we going to get all of them the ball to justify signing all of them, and who are we going to release?

Would you like to know why Michael Clayton isn’t looking like “the guy” right now. Its because he isn’t playing in “the guy’s” position. When he had his huge rookie season he was playing at the #1 receiver position because Galloway was out for the season. There’s only one football to go around and at the #3 spot it’s kind of tough to get many touches. Clayton plays the game harder than almost anybody on this team. I’ll gaurantee you won’t see that guy give up on a play, Galloway gives up on plays. If we get rid of Michael Clayton I will be supremely disappointed.

Maybe I’m wrong but it’s just my opinion. Sorry if it sounded a little harsh or sarcastic but some of the comments I felt needed to be argued. Feel free to shoot me down, I won’t take too much offense to it.

I guess it was just regarding WindyCityBucFan’s post. AcuraT had a good asessment of all of those players.

In any event, I respect and appreciate your opinion.

WindyCity, I always appreciate a good discussion, and I appreciate this as well.  Some comments that may help clarify a few things:

The only QBs I like that are available are Clevelands’s QB.  You are right, Brady Quinn fell further than expected but one pick, Miami’s wide receiver Ted Ginn Jr at #9, should have been when Brady was picked.  Miami did need a WR, but he was not supposed to go that high (no one understood the pick at the time) and no one needed a QB until Cleveland at #22.  That is why he fell so low, not because he was not wanted - but because the team that really needed him goofed big time and then a bunch of teams that did not need a QB passed. Note: Miami’s GM and coach is changing after that mistake and disaster of a season they had in 2007. I think of Brady Quinn as a good first round draft pick prospect.

Why I don’t like Dante Culpepper.  I don’t know if you have watched him since he has played in Minnisota.  His biggest change since his injuries over two years ago is the fact he does not run at all anymore.  He used to be like Jeff Garcia and other highly mobile QBs, moving around, scrambling for yardage, etc.  Now he stands mostly in the pocket like a pocket passer.  His value has declined since he is less effective as a pocket passer.  I just think the Bucs can do better elsewhere since it appears to me time has run out on Culpepper as an effective starter.

You are right - my statement above is that Rex Grossman is available, but the Bucs should show no interest in him. I think you may have just misread what I wrote.

Chris Simms and Chad Johnson - I don’t disagree with what you write, like the Chad ideas.

With Muhsin Muhammad I just looked at his trends.  Last year, when the Bears were in the Super Bowl, his number of catches declined from 2005 as well.  I just look at his longer term trends and age.  If he was not thrown the ball - okay, fine.  Bring him in, try him out as an unrestricted free agent.  I just would not give him a huge salary to come to Tampa. I think he is more of a risk which could be productive for a very short term (1, 2 years tops). I also think the Bucs WRs on the bench should get a chance before Muhammad does.

With Albert Haynesworth I just did not like out of six seasons only one (his latest) was productive.  Okay, I get your point he cold be a force, I just think there may be a better option (see above) than him. I like this idea better than Muhammad because he is younger and yes, he does show some promise as a decent pass rusher - could be a good replacement for the aging Spires as you are probably thinking.

With Michael Clayton, we agree to disagree.  I thought he looked good when playing this year.  I guess he did not do enough for you.  I think he just did not get opportunities because Gruden put him in the #3 slot (rookie year, #1 due to Galloway injury) and likes Ike Hillard better (and he did play well this year - still not sure why NY got rid of him).  I don’t think the Bucs need a bunch of WRs, but they do need a younger speedy receiver to replace Galloway soon.  It showed up in the playoff loss to the Giants - without a speedster you are not going to get the long bomb completed downfield. 

But, as I said, enjoy the friendly debate.

Hmm, the St. Pete Times reports that the Bucs are considering resigning Brian Griese if he is let go by the Bears.  If he is not let go, then Rex Grossman.  Brian I understand, but if the Bucs can turn aroiund Rex Grossman’s inconsistancy it will be a miracle.

Of course, the same story says they may also have interest in Daunte Culpepper - shows what I know. I never thought the Bucs would show any interest in that guy - then again, he would have to try out for the team before he would be signed so I may still be proven right about him.

One thing is for sure - the Bucs are going QB crazy again and are looking at all the options available to them. The only thing that scares me about Gruden/Allen is that they never seem to be settled on a QB - five years of Gruden, more than five QB starters.  It is what you get when you use older, more brittle QBs.  Just look at Brad Johnson, Brian Griese, and Jeff Garcia.  Except for Gruden’s frist year in Tampa when Brad Johnson lasted the full season, none of those good starters lasted the full year even when Gruden wanted them to start.  It appears fans will get more of the same for the forseeable future of the franchise. I only hope the team is able to win with this ongoing situation.

Trent Green was just recently released by the Dolphins so he could be a possible Qb to sign as a back-up. Over all though I really like having Luke McCown taking the back-up snaps for us. It’s still up in the air as to wether or not he could be our starter some day but I’d rather have a younger guy learning behind Garcia than another old fart that should be retired any way or someone like Culpepper that isn’t worth a damn any more and gets passed around like a party slut to every team in the league.

You have to forget Trent Green, the guy has had two concussions within five games.  His career is over unless someone is willing to take on a life-threatening injury QB.  I don’t think you will see anyone picking him up and he will retire.

Considering the Bucs are looking at D. Culpeper, Rex Grossman, and Brian Griese we can honestly say that if you are healthy, the Bucs are looking at you as a potential backup QB. Again, the only scary thing about this is I don’t want the Bucs in the position they were the year after the Super Bowl.  That was when they had the two Johnsons and Shawn King, and between all three they did not have a starter. 

With an old QB (Garcia, as great as he played when healthy, will be 38 going on 39 next season), a hurt QB (Simms), an inexperienced QB which showed streaks of spectacular playing with disasters (L. McCown), and now potentially another old QB - where does that leave the Bucs if Garcia cannot play?  Not in good shape.  Culpepper is a gamble at best.  Grossman will need a complete reworking to work well in a west coast offense. Brian Griese although really good in the west coast offense is starting to show his age as well.

Believe it or not, next year could very much have Bucs fans seeing Luke McCown playing for an extended period of time.  The way Garcia takes chances it is a given he will be out for part of the season next year.  If the backup is Culpepper or Griese, they are likely to go down as well in pretty rapid fashion. That leaves the Bucs with Simms (if healthy) or McCown.