In this time of FCAT tests, shrinking budgets, and failing schools, every day counts in Florida’s public schools. But on any given day in Pinellas and Hillsborough County roughly 1000 fulltime teachers are missing from the classroom.

Our Target Eight investigation discovered that so far this year classroom substitutes have already filled in for teachers more than 80,000 times this school year in Hillsborough and Pinellas Counties.

What do you think?

Search absence data between 08/21/07 to 01/16/08.

Why is teaching as a profession being singled out? What precipitated this investigation? It seems extremely biased!

There seems to be an assumption that teachers who are out of the classroom are just ‘taking time off’. The investigation did not mention that some teachers may be missing work due to illness. Remember, teachers deal with hundreds of children daily---sniffling, coughing, sneezing children daily. It is no wonder they get ill sometimes.

One of the difficulties of teaching is that a teacher must take either a half day or a full day off if they are to miss any part of the day. So if a parent needs to take a sick child to the doctor...and that appointment doesn’t fit perfectly in the time period for 1/2 of the morning or 1/2 of the afternoon, they must take the whole day off. They can’t take just an hour and a half off to go to the doctor.

Some teachers also have children, children who sometimes get sick. There was no mention that some absences may be due to needing to care for sick children and/or get care for their children.

The report made only a very quick mention that teachers might not be in the classroom and require a substitute because they are at a conference or other training. God forbid that our teachers keep up with their own professional development. This can’t always be done on the days in the summer that teachers are not paid for. Nor should teachers have to get professional training on days that are not paid working days. This is equivalent to an employer telling its employees that they should learn more about their job while on their unpaid vacation. Hmmm..

In Pinellas County, teachers do not get paid vacation days. They do get sick days, and they can use a few of the sick days as personal days (for things like going to the doctor, etc.). Most teachers that I know try to schedule things on days when school is not in session, or in afterschool hours as much as possible.

I have never heard a teacher say that they enjoy missing school! What I have heard teachers say is that it is more difficult to plan for being out of the classroom for a day than it is to be in the class teaching. It is also difficult when the teachers return to class after an absence.

Perhaps the biggest difficulty the teacher faces with missing class is that the students often do not cooperate with the substitute and then they try to claim that the sub didn’t assign work, etc. It seems to be the norm in our society for students to expect that they don’t have to listen to the sub or do work when the sub is there. Some adults will say that it is the same as it was when they were in school years ago. Maybe we (parents, teachers and society in general) should expect more from our kids. Maybe we should expect them to listen to the adult who has been given the responsibility of carrying out the teachers lesson plans. And just maybe we should expect the students to actually try to complete the work that was assigned!!

On another note, I played back the video here on the website and noticed that the stats that were highlighted on the screen in the report were not consistent with the statements made in the report. There were schools with higher absentee rates that had high grades. For example, Seminole High School had a higher absentee rate than at least one of the highlighted schools.

Frankly, I am tired of the media bashing schools and teachers. I have a Bachelors degree from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a Masters degree from Harvard. I have chosen to be a teacher. I get paid less than half of what I was offered for my first job out of MIT (before getting a Masters Degree from Harvard). I teach at Dixie M. Hollins High School. Not because I have to teach (I could work in another profession). I am certainly not teaching for the high pay or the good working hours (I generally work at least 60-70 hours a week). And I am definitely not working for the the employee perks (I don’t think our company has perks...I am usually having to buy my own supplies for my job because we have run out of paper or we don’t have what I feel I need to teach a particular class). And finally, I am absolutely not doing this for the prestige...not when reports like this Channel 8 report are rampant.

Why am I teaching? I am teaching because I have chosen to give back to the community. I have yet to find a more challenging and difficult job than teaching and I thrive on challenges. Why am I teaching at Dixie M. Hollins High School? Because I want to! I have taught at and I could teach at other schools but I like Dixie M. Hollins because I love my students! Because my students say “Thank you for helping me!” Because I am surrounded by other faculty members who genuinely care about their students and are doing everything they can possibly do to help raise up these kids to a level where they can be successful in society which in some cases is no small task.

Unfortunately, when I see reports like this one...I stop and wonder...why am I putting myself through this. I could be making alot more money and have much, much more control over my work environment (I could go to the bathroom whenever I wanted to...I could make a phone call whenever I needed to....I could go home at night without a stack of papers to grade and lessons to plan). What was the point of this report?

Why doesn’t news channel 8 come up with something positive to show? I would love to see them talk about the phenomenal Graphic Arts Academy we have at Dixie M. Hollins High School. Or perhaps they could report on or the Smaller Learning Communities we have developed that have been showcased at regional conferences. Maybe they could talk about the huge learning gains our students made on the math FCAT last year.

Let’s look for something positive to show on the news, instead of trying to find controversy where none really exists!!!

I have taught for 14 years and this story is full of holes. Funny how the story chose to look at teachers, as “teacher” stated, but there are other issues too.

First, a correlation was made between the amount of absences in schools and the grades the schools have earned from the state DOE.  Well, has there been any consideration given to the amount of stress these teachers are under in these schools? Students in these schools are not achieving at high levels, so teachers are expected to do more.  Administrators pressure the teachers, students pressure the teachers and parents are also vocal about problems and school grades.  Maybe the absences do not CAUSE the low grades, but are an EFFECT of them.

Second, the interviews with the high schoolers were informative, if viewed with a critical eye.  They admitted to falling behind when a substitute is in class, and they also say that the plans are not followed. The bottom line, the kids don’t cooperate!  This is not a teacher problem, but a SOCIETAL problem.  Our young people are taught, maybe unconsciously and maybe also through example, that adults in a position of authority, even substitutes, do not really need to be respected. So, the plans that a teacher left for the sub cannot be followed, no matter how hard the sub tries. How many of the general public would volunteer to try to do that? Not many, that’s why it’s tough to find subs and in some cases in Hillsborough schools, for instance, classes are split up and combined to go with “real” teachers.

Third, the interviews with the teachers with thousands of hours of accrued time off were all with men. They are often not the ones giving birth, taking care of children or others in the family.  They, therefore, can accrue lots of hours. Also, TV communications and Graphics are NOT part of the FCAT. Kind of goes back to my first point--no pressure, no stress and no illness from that.

It just seems that, once again, media, reporters and producers are looking to create a story and sensationalize something that is no more than a quantitative report. Talk to the teachers, take a broader look at the situation, and a different story is told. It’s time that the media in Florida stop trying to skewer the teachers in the schools and try to do something to help the kids and teachers in the building.  Also, heed the old saying and don’t judge someone until you’ve walked a mile (or a school hallway) in their shoes.

Are you seriously kidding me?  From the way this report sounds, teachers aren’t allowed to take time off.  When we go in at 7 a.m. (or earlier sometimes) and stay till on AVERAGE 4 p.m. (most teachers at my school are there till lord only knows), when are we supposed to see our families, get doctor appointments, etc.  Things come up (car troubles, kids getting sick, etc).  We do get sick, especially when we are teaching the younger kids.  The germs are rampant, and at certain times of year, it is more prevelant.  When the reporter said “never get in trouble”, what are we supposed to get in trouble for?  Having a life??  Getting sick??  When we are out, we get our days docked, and yes, we do get paid, but it is a pain to be out.  We have to run copies, leave lesson plans, etc.  I definitely don’t teach for the pay (I work part time on the weekends to get the extra money).  I teach because I love watching the students make the progress from struggling to reading like crazy.  I don’t like to be out, but it does happen.

Are you SERIOUS ?

First of all, 7 1/2 days absent out of 180 (not including the non student contact days) is an attendance rate of 96%. Doesn’t sound alarming from that perspective really. Our contract allows us 10 days a year (6 sick, 4 personal), apparently we are using less and yet you report that it is too many.

Secondly, there are a few details you seem to be blissfully unaware of, for example:

The majority of teachers, especially in elem. where you say the absences are higher, are women. Those would be the ones usually who get to stay home when their children are ill. They are also the ones who take maternity leave, part of which is sometimes sick time instead of “leave”.

I was informed a few weeks ago, as my friend left for maternity leave, that she was told she had to use all but 10 of her accrued sick days before being considered “on leave” which, if that is the policy, would cause an artificial inflation of sick days every time someone took leave for maternity, cancer treatments, or any other reason.

We work with children whose parents sometimes send them to school when they are sick, (that way they can go to work). When they get there they sneeze, cough, and spread their germs freely, often without covering their mouths, etc. and with limited chances to wash their hands. Again, this happens especially in elementary school.

Some of the absences are teachers taking personal days on teacher training days, (days without student contact). Not only do these absences not hurt students, they also don’t require substitutes.

Some teachers such as resource teachers for special ed. groups and speech teachers that do not have their own classrooms do not get substitutes when they are out so those absences may effect students, but do not cost the taxpayer.

Unlike the corporate world, we can not just come in late or leave early and take a couple of hours off to go to a doctors appointment, take care of an emergency, get a car to the mechanic, etc. You need to go somewhere or do something, you take the whole day (and try to schedule in as much as possible so you don’t have to do it again soon). Half day substitutes exist, but try to schedule one - no one wants the job and I don’t blame them.

Some teacher absences are to attend trainings or conferences that make us better teachers and keep our license current (business people do this to, but they are just considered “out of the office for the day”, not absent).  Yes, there are “temporary duty elsewhere” dates that you can get if you are lucky, but not nearly enough available. I had a personal day this month to attend a district sponsored training, (Yes, I will be marked “absent” and use up one of my accrued days while spending my time learning how to do my job better in a meeting at the admin. building.) because I thought it would make me a better employee.

Some of the absences for meetings or trainings are required or mandated by the district or school administrators, (i.e., curriculum trainings for lead teachers, FCAT training for new teachers, etc.)

It is actually more difficult for most classroom teachers to be out and make sub. plans, (a highly detailed version of usual lesson plans so that someone else can effectively do the job) than it is to come to school, even when not feeling well. For this reason, teachers often work while ill, or come back from illness or surgery sooner than they should and sometimes they force themselves to work through Thursday and wait until Friday to go to the doctor so that they can rest on the weekend instead and only miss one day of work. (Apparently, they are not the only ones. I was at the doctor’s not too long ago and the doctor mentioned that Fridays are their busiest days - it wasn’t a teacher exclusive doctor - other people are there more on Friday as well, imagine that.

Also, the students admitted they don’t pay attention to the substitutes so why are the teachers taking all of the blame? We leave detailed plans which, when followed and attended too, would lead to learning for cooperative students. We do not forgo all assignments and excuse students from trying just because we can’t be there for a day. If the students choose to make the assumption that they can play in our absence, that is their poor choice. These are the same students of course, (in fact one of the ones you interviewed, when in my class a few years back) whose parents take them out of school for a day or week at a time to go important places like Disney World and cruises (sometimes right before FCAT) and expect us to scramble around for make-up work they can do after they send in a note telling us they are going on vacation and asking if we’ll “be doing anything important in class that week.  We, most of us, get to work early, leave late, take work home, and work on weekends and holidays - ask our families. I know teacher bashing has become a hobby lately with the media, but this report was ridiculously biased and apparently poorly researched. An apology to teachers on both sides of the bay and some enlightenment of the reality for your viewers is in order. Many hardworking teachers were very insulted the other night by your report.

So Mark - were you ready?
Yes, no doubt there are teachers who play the system - I don’t think that’s any different than any job. Yes, Friday is the most popular - again, you’ll find that most anywhere.
Yes, it’s a female dominated field, which means maternity leave, taking care of the kids, and, sometimes, taking care of elderly parents.
As teachers we are a little like Actors; not nearly as famous or well paid, but kept an eye on. It’s a little scary, and kind of flattering, to go to the mall and hear “Hey, isn’t that our librarian?”.
At the same time, we have to be very careful of what we do, because we do have a lot of critics. We, as teachers, are responsible for thousands of students. At the school I work at we have more than 1,800 students; that’s a lot of kids to worry about - and a lot of pressure. As it is, being out on medical leave myself right now, I feel terribly guilty and am trying to get Dr. permission to go back to work early - and I’m only the librarian.
I know you weren’t really picking on us. Actually, I thought you did a pretty good job. Yes, you interviewed 2 men that have had few absences, and the Teacher of the year, a woman (I am curious about her absence rate). I don’t get to go back to work for another week (unless my Dr. says I can), so I haven’t heard any reaction at school. I do agree that somebody, maybe principals (not that they don’t have enough to do) may need to look at the absentee rate at their schools and see if there is a pattern with some teachers. If it’s kind of willy nilly even across the board, no big deal. But if it’s certain teachers and there is a notable pattern, maybe they should be confronted.
OK - now I’m gonna get the hate mail!
So, when are you going to shadow a teacher for a couple of days at a high school?

teacher - 13 February 2008 01:26 AM

On another note, I played back the video here on the website and noticed that the stats that were highlighted on the screen in the report were not consistent with the statements made in the report. There were schools with higher absentee rates that had high grades. For example, Seminole High School had a higher absentee rate than at least one of the highlighted schools.

You are correct, in a way. Seminole HS had a higher absence rate vs. Osceola (and Lakewood?) but a lower “absence per teacher” because there are 120 teachers at Seminole and 96 at Osceola, making the ratio of absence per teacher higher. Which is actually interesting, because, according to WFLA’s data, (which I’m assuming they got from the DOE or from the school itself), there are about 1,800 students at Osceola and 1,700 at Seminole, so the student to teacher ratio must be higher.
That, itself, could create higher risk.

I’m not a mathematician, so I hope that makes sense.

GREAT REPORT!Now why don’t you go to Washington or Tallahassee and report on the elected officials who are absent when critical legislation is voted on Mark? You may walk into and through a school,as I have seen you do with Charlie Christ,but you will never walk in anyone shoes re:absenteeism. How many days did you miss last year at Channel 8?Why no debate or open forum with replies on Chanel 8 from teachers?

WOW! What amazes me is the response you got from this story. The teachers seem to go on and on about how bad they have it, how poor they are and how they are always bashed. Let’s remember some things ...

Teachers have a 180 day work year. They get the other 180 days off.
Teachers are paid equal to an annual salaried person that gets only 2 weeks off.
Teachers get 10 sick/personal days out of 180 work days.
Private sector gets 10 days out of 365 work days.
Teachers get a planning period- not just a 15 minute break.

The school system is the largest part of the state’s budget.
The school system gets more of the state’s money than any other department.
The school system spends more than 40% of the entire state’s budget.
The State of Florida runs ALL departments including highways, government offices, parks, emergency funds, welfare and many others on less than the one school system.

Yes teachers, you work for the people. That means you answer to us, the taxpayer. Yes, we will watch you and you will be criticized. You are in a publicly funded department. All governement workers are watched closely!

You will never get the respect of a person who works all year long (even the summer) for much less money. I am not saying you are overpaid or rich but you do make good money for the 180 days you work.

If you think anyone else has it any easier… take a job that requires you to work all year long and 8-10 hours per day! Remember… no other industry takes the entire summer off.

J33716 - 18 February 2008 08:09 PM

WOW! What amazes me is the response you got from this story. The teachers seem to go on and on about how bad they have it, how poor they are and how they are always bashed. Let’s remember some things ...

Teachers have a 180 day work year. They get the other 180 days off.
WRONG....STUDENTS have 180 days.....teachers work many days when students aren’t there....Many of us attend workshops during our “summer off” for which we pay our own way and earn no income......but we are STILL WORKING!

Teachers are paid equal to an annual salaried person that gets only 2 weeks off. What kind of annual salaried person are YOU talking about?  My husband makes twice as much as I do......with less education! 
Teachers get 10 sick/personal days out of 180 work days. As before....we work more than 180 days.
Private sector gets 10 days out of 365 work days. That husband I mentioned before....the one who earns twice as much as I do.....he gets 20 days of vacation a year.
Teachers get a planning period- not just a 15 minute break.
I do hope you aren’t comparing a PLANNING PERIOD to a REST BREAK.......
GEEZ - some people really do think that teachers only work when kids are there.....really seems to be the tone of the news folks too - hey - do you reporters only work when you are ON AIR???

lovehate - 18 February 2008 09:04 PM

J33716 - 18 February 2008 08:09 PM

WOW! What amazes me is the response you got from this story. The teachers seem to go on and on about how bad they have it, how poor they are and how they are always bashed. Let’s remember some things ...

Teachers have a 180 day work year. They get the other 180 days off.
WRONG....STUDENTS have 180 days.....teachers work many days when students aren’t there....Many of us attend workshops during our “summer off” for which we pay our own way and earn no income......but we are STILL WORKING!
We ALL pay for training, in fact we pay SCHOOLS for our training. You are no different. Going to school for training or continuing ed is not working. We in the private sector have the same requirements and do not get paid for training either.

Teachers are paid equal to an annual salaried person that gets only 2 weeks off. What kind of annual salaried person are YOU talking about?  My husband makes twice as much as I do......with less education! 
Maybe 35k and summers off is not enough for you but I know a lot of people making less for working all year. By the way.. you may not feel your husband is as educated as you but I wonder if he feels that way. Education is not only done at what you call school.

Teachers get 10 sick/personal days out of 180 work days. As before....we work more than 180 days.
Private sector gets 10 days out of 365 work days. That husband I mentioned before....the one who earns twice as much as I do.....he gets 20 days of vacation a year.
Yes he gets 20 days but teachers get months off.

Teachers get a planning period- not just a 15 minute break.
I do hope you aren’t comparing a PLANNING PERIOD to a REST BREAK.......

I wish my boss gave me time to plan my day...nope, just get to work.

GEEZ - some people really do think that teachers only work when kids are there.....really seems to be the tone of the news folks too - hey - do you reporters only work when you are ON AIR???

Truth is that teachers do not work a full year! They have more time off than any other profession! You picked the job for what it is, not the pay. Nobody is under paid if they have the option to get another job. Your job is your choice!

J33716 - 18 February 2008 08:09 PM

WOW! What amazes me is the response you got from this story. The teachers seem to go on and on about how bad they have it, how poor they are and how they are always bashed. Let’s remember some things ...

No one is complaining - I chose the job and I love it or I wouldn’t be doing it. But, there does seem to be a need for a reality check out there.
1.) I am paid much lower than any other professional with my 20 years experience and advanced degree. Check any COMPARABLE scale - remember 20 yrs. with same organization and masters’ degree - professional which means constant updates in education and licensing.

Teachers have a 180 day work year. They get the other 180 days off.
Teachers are paid equal to an annual salaried person that gets only 2 weeks off.
Teachers get 10 sick/personal days out of 180 work days.
Private sector gets 10 days out of 365 work days.
Teachers get a planning period- not just a 15 minute break.

2.) Planning period does not equal break! Planning period is when we grade papers, write lesson plans, fill out mandated forms, attend required committee meetings, etc. If you are lucky, you can steal 5 min. of that time to go to the restroom since you can’t go any other time except that 1/2 hour lunch (20-25 min. really after you take out the time required to drop off and pick up students in elementary schools). We do not have any official “break” time in the work day. I worked an office job before teaching; 2 fifteen min. “coffee breaks” and if you had to go to the restroom, you go, break time or not. Most of that work can not possibly be done in the “planning period” so we take it home. Most teachers grade papers, write lessons, and do other work at least 2-3 nights a week and part of the weekend, sometimes more depending on the time of year. (The majority of teachers easily work enough hours beyond the 40 hr. work week to make up part if not most of those summer days - the ones you use to justify the lower salaries.)

3.) Maybe you should have paid more attention to your math teachers. There are 52 weeks in a year x 2 weekend days each = 104 days that your “365 day employees” don’t work either = 261 days. (We don’t include weekends in the count of school days). We also work a minimum (depending on specific position and not including trainings on own time) of 16 non student days making the overall difference = 65 days (much less than the 185 extra you claim - actually about 1/3 as many as you calculate).

4.) Many of the workers outside the school system get more than 10 sick/vacation days a year - especially those in professional jobs and jobs that require degrees of bachelors or higher (as ours does).

The school system is the largest part of the state’s budget.
The school system gets more of the state’s money than any other department.
The school system spends more than 40% of the entire state’s budget.
The State of Florida runs ALL departments including highways, government offices, parks, emergency funds, welfare and many others on less than the one school system.


5.) Check your facts.  Florida’s school system spends less per student than most other states, (I believe we are currently ranked 48th or 49th).

Yes teachers, you work for the people. That means you answer to us, the taxpayer. Yes, we will watch you and you will be criticized. You are in a publicly funded department. All governement workers are watched closely!

6.) And who do you work for? Aren’t your customers people too. If you aren’t doing anything people need or want you wouldn’t be in business.

You will never get the respect of a person who works all year long (even the summer) for much less money. I am not saying you are overpaid or rich but you do make good money for the 180 days you work.

7.) Educated people do respect us. They know that they didn’t get where they are without learning something from some teachers along the way - sorry you can’t understand that.

If you think anyone else has it any easier… take a job that requires you to work all year long and 8-10 hours per day! Remember… no other industry takes the entire summer off.

8.) No one said you had it easier - that is the accusation you make of us as teachers. Really? Take my job for a week and then tell me it’s easier than yours. If you find it really is, maybe you would like a career change - we always seem to need more teachers. The stress, payscale, and lack of public respect (from folks like you) seem to keep chasing people out of the field. The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence, until you step on it. I don’t make judgements about your career or anyone else’s that I have not experienced and neither should you. There are many jobs out there that I could not do, and I know it. There are others that I would not want to do, as I bet many would say of mine. It’s hard and it’s stressful but it is rewarding in ways beyond the monetary and lucky for you - and your children (assuming you are a parent or for that matter anyone who plans to live long enough to retire and live in this country when today’s children are in charge - there are people like me willing to forgo the money we could make elsewhere to do the job. Respect comes from understanding that we all need each other eliminating most any job would create a problem for others - a realization that you aren’t any better than anyone else because of your job and neither am I and that I (or you) do not have the right to disrespect or judge others based on an opinion formed without walking in someones shoes. (P.S. worked 10 hours a day once in an engineering firm - it was easier, but less rewarding although the pay was good.)

teacher/mom - 19 February 2008 01:19 AM

J33716 - 18 February 2008 08:09 PM

No one is complaining - I chose the job and I love it or I wouldn’t be doing it. But, there does seem to be a need for a reality check out there.

Are you kidding...All I hear is how poor teachers are! How stressful it is! You guys even beg from our kids with your fund raisers!

1.) I am paid much lower than any other professional with my 20 years experience and advanced degree. Check any COMPARABLE scale - remember 20 yrs. with same organization and masters’ degree - professional which means constant updates in education and licensing.

There you go comparing yourself to a CEO… I was thinking you were more like us common folk with a job. I too have 20 years experience. So what? Every job has a ceiling. Just because you went out a got more degress doesn’t change the job market. Only union workers believe the longer they work for someone the more they should get paid. Welcome to FL



3.) Maybe you should have paid more attention to your math teachers. There are 52 weeks in a year x 2 weekend days each = 104 days that your “365 day employees” don’t work either = 261 days. (We don’t include weekends in the count of school days). We also work a minimum (depending on specific position and not including trainings on own time) of 16 non student days making the overall difference = 65 days (much less than the 185 extra you claim - actually about 1/3 as many as you calculate).

Umm...I work every other weekend, so add 26 days to YOUR math. Even with 65 days you have 2 months off plus 10. None of us common jobs have that much time off. (By the way.. getting personal doesn’t help your answers)

4.) Many of the workers outside the school system get more than 10 sick/vacation days a year - especially those in professional jobs and jobs that require degrees of bachelors or higher (as ours does). [/color]

The school system is the largest part of the state’s budget.
The school system gets more of the state’s money than any other department.
The school system spends more than 40% of the entire state’s budget.
The State of Florida runs ALL departments including highways, government offices, parks, emergency funds, welfare and many others on less than the one school system.


5.) Check your facts.  Florida’s school system spends less per student than most other states, (I believe we are currently ranked 48th or 49th).

I got my facts from the actual state budget. It’s still the most money spent in OUR budget and the entire State runs on less than the school system. Maybe get rid of some admins and teachers would get paid more.

Yes teachers, you work for the people. That means you answer to us, the taxpayer. Yes, we will watch you and you will be criticized. You are in a publicly funded department. All governement workers are watched closely!

6.) And who do you work for? Aren’t your customers people too. If you aren’t doing anything people need or want you wouldn’t be in business. Umm… try proof reading

You will never get the respect of a person who works all year long (even the summer) for much less money. I am not saying you are overpaid or rich but you do make good money for the 180 days you work.

7.) Educated people do respect us. They know that they didn’t get where they are without learning something from some teachers along the way - sorry you can’t understand that.

OK, I will qualify this statement. People who work harder for less money will not feel sorry for you when you complain. True with any job. Stop begging for more money from people who don’t have it to give.

If you think anyone else has it any easier… take a job that requires you to work all year long and 8-10 hours per day! Remember… no other industry takes the entire summer off.

8.) No one said you had it easier - that is the accusation you make of us as teachers. Really? Take my job for a week and then tell me it’s easier than yours. If you find it really is, maybe you would like a career change - we always seem to need more teachers. The stress, payscale, and lack of public respect (from folks like you) seem to keep chasing people out of the field. The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence, until you step on it. I don’t make judgements about your career or anyone else’s that I have not experienced and neither should you. There are many jobs out there that I could not do, and I know it. There are others that I would not want to do, as I bet many would say of mine. It’s hard and it’s stressful but it is rewarding in ways beyond the monetary and lucky for you - and your children (assuming you are a parent or for that matter anyone who plans to live long enough to retire and live in this country when today’s children are in charge - there are people like me willing to forgo the money we could make elsewhere to do the job. Respect comes from understanding that we all need each other eliminating most any job would create a problem for others - a realization that you aren’t any better than anyone else because of your job and neither am I and that I (or you) do not have the right to disrespect or judge others based on an opinion formed without walking in someones shoes. (P.S. worked 10 hours a day once in an engineering firm - it was easier, but less rewarding although the pay was good.)

You guys don’t know what stress is..! Try being a surgeon, air traffic controller, paramedic, or any other job that lives are at stake, not grades! What happens when you make a mistake? You get the chance to correct it. We don’t!
How many people lost there jobs today because of a mistake by you? None!

I can see this is getting personal so I will stop here. Points of both should be well taken.

Newbie said:  You guys don’t know what stress is..! Try being a surgeon, air traffic controller, paramedic, or any other job that lives are at stake, not grades! What happens when you make a mistake? You get the chance to correct it. We don’t!
How many people lost there jobs today because of a mistake by you? None!

I can see this is getting personal so I will stop here. Points of both should be well taken.

I’m curious, Newbie.....which of these jobs do you have?  You are obviously quite proud of the work you do - good for you!  Good teachers are also proud of the work they do.  I don’t think you fully understand the nature of our work - and that’s OK, until you start bashing us for things that your limited experience doesn’t allow you to understand.  Having sat in a classroom as a student does not give you an understanding of a teacher’s job any more than having been a patient gives you an understanding of a doctor’s reponsibilities.

And just one more thin, Newbie.  At one point in your response to Teacher/Mom you indicated she should proofread.....perhaps you should do the same. 
The word you needed above was THEIR, not THERE.........

lovehate - 19 February 2008 07:54 PM

Newbie said:  You guys don’t know what stress is..! Try being a surgeon, air traffic controller, paramedic, or any other job that lives are at stake, not grades! What happens when you make a mistake? You get the chance to correct it. We don’t!
How many people lost there jobs today because of a mistake by you? None!


I can see this is getting personal so I will stop here. Points of both should be well taken.

I’m curious, Newbie.....which of these jobs do you have?  You are obviously quite proud of the work you do - good for you!  Good teachers are also proud of the work they do.  I don’t think you fully understand the nature of our work - and that’s OK, until you start bashing us for things that your limited experience doesn’t allow you to understand.  Having sat in a classroom as a student does not give you an understanding of a teacher’s job any more than having been a patient gives you an understanding of a doctor’s reponsibilities.

I can see you missed the point. The subject was stress. While a police officer, a firefighter, a paramedic, a nurse, or an air traffic controller have similar pay they obviously have much more stress.

I can see that you as well have the ability to bash and make personal comments about my past that you know nothing of.

[color=green]And just one more thin, Newbie. At one point in your response to Teacher/Mom you indicated she should proofread.....perhaps you should do the same. 
The word you needed above was THEIR, not THERE.........[/color]

Oops! Even you made the same mistake of not proofing your work. Guess we all are equal in that dept.

what needs to be investigated is the number of days students miss.  I’m a teacher and I have kids in my classes that have missed nearly 1/3 of the school year already.  Now that hinders learning!