It was announced today on ESPN that Brett Farve has asked for his release from the Green Bay Packers.  He has once again changed his mind about retiring, but the Packers want to start 2005 draft pick Rodgers over Farve since Farve took too long to change his mind.  The Packers said they will do what is in the best interest of the club, which may mean they may try to trade him away.

The question is, is Gruden that desperate to get a very old QB who can still play pretty well to add to the other two “old men” he has?  Would he trade a draft pick to get the man?

I would hope not, but when it comes to old QBs, Gruden does not seem to have the clearest of minds.  Now if he was available for no draft pick… that might be a different story.  Still, what do you do since this team still has too many QBs already?  Cut Simms and McCown and have three old QBs?  That would seem short sighted.  Then again, if Gruden already thinks that those two have no long term future, it would fit his tendency to have old QBs for the here and now. What do other think?

Some Packer(Favre) fans seem to think that Favre should be traded and is worth a number 2 draft pick. Some also think that many teams will jump at the chance to trade for Favre. I doubt that any team will trade for him because of his $12million contract.

I think there is a limit that teams will do to trade for a QB as old as Farve is.  Plus, he has shown a tendency under pressure to sometimes throw a clutch interception these last couple of years.  Still, he is still a good player amazingly enough.  The Bucs don’t want Simms, and I could see them offering him for a trade for Farve since Gruden can never have enough old QBs for his taste.

I admit this is a long shot at best of ever happening.  Still, I could see Gruden wanting to attempt such a trade.

I know Farve is getting old, but so is Galloway, Brooks and Barber. The NFL is about one thing and people forget it from time to time (WINNING SUPERBOWLS) thats is what they play for every year and having Brett suit up in pewter and crimson would raise our chances of winning a super bowl in our own statium, can anyone argue that? He is familur with Gruden and would not have a problem learning our system if we brought him in before camp or in the first week. He would make everyone around him better.  for our young QB’S, he would help develop them better than any QB coach we could ever hire. Brett Farve is a gamble worth the risk........
Also Acura T, Gruden may have tendices to get old QB’S, but look at what they have done for them when he gets them Rich Gannon, they barley lost against New England in the AFC Championship game by a 52yd clutch field goal in the snow, the next year he played in the superbowl against us and we won with 37yr old Brad Johnson and now we have Jeff Garcia who took us from Gradkowski to division champs, so I hope he continues to bring in old QB’S and hopefully we draft one that we can groom. Who knows maybe it will be Luke Mckown..........

From the outside looking in it might sound all fine and dandy, but dig deeper. Two 38 year old QB’s on the roster doesn’t mix well, so if Favre came, someone’s gotta give. Garcia already knows the playbook, Favre doesn’t. Letting go of Garcia to start over with Favre (albiet a Future H.O.F.) doesn’t sit well with me. Also, a Favre who doesn’t have a good grip of a playbook yet, might revert to the ole’ chuck and duck methods that earned him the league record of interceptions. Gruden loves Favre, but Gruden HATES turnovers and in our style offense, they don’t help us at ALL. If we’re talking about Favre pre-Garcia, I’m saying sell the farm, give up all 7 draft picks, and fire Monte Kiffin (LOL just kidding there) to get Favre. But at this point in his career and this point in time for the Bucs. Gotta pass on this one. We won the division with Garcia at the helm guys. I agree we need a QB for security, but one with the prospect of the future. Now.....Garcia goes down early in the season and the Packers still have a death grip on #4....well, now we’ve got a dilemma.

norton356 - 15 July 2008 05:39 PM

I know Farve is getting old, but so is Galloway, Brooks and Barber. The NFL is about one thing and people forget it from time to time (WINNING SUPERBOWLS) thats is what they play for every year and having Brett suit up in pewter and crimson would raise our chances of winning a super bowl in our own statium, can anyone argue that? He is familur with Gruden and would not have a problem learning our system if we brought him in before camp or in the first week. He would make everyone around him better.  for our young QB’S, he would help develop them better than any QB coach we could ever hire. Brett Farve is a gamble worth the risk........
Also Acura T, Gruden may have tendices to get old QB’S, but look at what they have done for them when he gets them Rich Gannon, they barley lost against New England in the AFC Championship game by a 52yd clutch field goal in the snow, the next year he played in the superbowl against us and we won with 37yr old Brad Johnson and now we have Jeff Garcia who took us from Gradkowski to division champs, so I hope he continues to bring in old QB’S and hopefully we draft one that we can groom. Who knows maybe it will be Luke Mckown..........

I agree, the idea is winning Super Bowls.  However, Gruden goes for any old QB he can.  You mention his one big success, Brad Johnson - which he did not identify, he interited from Tony Dungy who picked him up.  Brad was already a successful QB when Gruden came to town.  He had done well in a number of systems.  It is true Gruden “found” Rich Gannon.  He has also “found” Gradkowski, Tim Rattay, and Rob Johnson - none of which have worked out.  Brian Griese did work out, and he is back in town now.  Overall, Gruden’s track record on picking out QBs in Tampa is he has found two good ones, Griese and Garcia, and three bad ones who were out of the NFL when they left the team.  Not so great.

I think what I am trying to say is it would be nice if the team could have a QB plan for the future.  I am with you in hoping that Luke McCown is that QB, and time will tell if that late round pickup from Cleveland is ever consistant enough to hold the starter’s job (I hope he is, becuase his athleticism is exciting to watch).  My point is to pick up Farve now, who does not know the system, who has a tendecy to turn the ball over under pressure is not the right way to go.  Stay with Garcia and Griese if you must and it is the best chance to win, but I don’t think Farve presents that clear cut advantage to win.

jvnootz - 16 July 2008 11:17 AM

I agree we need a QB for security, but one with the prospect of the future. Now.....Garcia goes down early in the season and the Packers still have a death grip on #4....well, now we’ve got a dilemma.

I agreed with everything you wrote but this last statement.  Do you really think the Bucs are in trouble at QB if Garcia goes down?  Last year they seems okay (not fantastic, but okay) with Luke McCown who had a QB rating over 90 in all his starts and now they have from Chicago Brian Griese, who a few years ago could manage the offense acceptably (5-1 in his last six starts in Tampa).  I don’t think the Bucs are in a dilemma if Garcia goes down.... I think they are in trouble if they lose all three QBs and are forced to go to the draft pick (I am assuming that Simms is trade bait unless something changes at camp).  Do you believe differently?

I agreed with everything you wrote but this last statement.  Do you really think the Bucs are in trouble at QB if Garcia goes down?  Last year they seems okay (not fantastic, but okay) with Luke McCown who had a QB rating over 90 in all his starts and now they have from Chicago Brian Griese, who a few years ago could manage the offense acceptably (5-1 in his last six starts in Tampa).  I don’t think the Bucs are in a dilemma if Garcia goes down.... I think they are in trouble if they lose all three QBs and are forced to go to the draft pick (I am assuming that Simms is trade bait unless something changes at camp).  Do you believe differently?

If anyone were seriously interested in Simms, he’d have been dealt by now. I’m thinking the Bucs are just about ready to deal with him for two free tickets and a snickers bar at this point. It looks like they’re going to be forced to release him, or showcase him in the preseason for serious offers.
If Garcia goes down, Griese is capable of keeping games close, but we lose that “it” factor for plaoff success. I’m more confident in Brett Favre coming in than our back ups. I just don’t want to accept the position is on its last leg with us. I hope Griese not only performs well, I hope he pushes Garcia for playing time. Go Bucs

jvnootz - 21 July 2008 10:05 PM

If anyone were seriously interested in Simms, he’d have been dealt by now. I’m thinking the Bucs are just about ready to deal with him for two free tickets and a snickers bar at this point. It looks like they’re going to be forced to release him, or showcase him in the preseason for serious offers.
If Garcia goes down, Griese is capable of keeping games close, but we lose that “it” factor for plaoff success. I’m more confident in Brett Favre coming in than our back ups. I just don’t want to accept the position is on its last leg with us. I hope Griese not only performs well, I hope he pushes Garcia for playing time. Go Bucs

I think you are right.  The Bucs will play Simms trying to get another team to take him for compensation.  I have been thinking that for awhile now, and it probably makes the most sense considering there is no proof he has healed yet.  One other option, he outplays McCown (highly unlikely considering that McCown can move and is better suited to the west coast offense) and actually makes the team as the third QB.  If Gruden was fair, that would be a possiblity - but I doubt it will come to pass.

I think Brian Griese is more than capable keeping games close given the right situation and system to operate in.  He was right at home the first time around, effectively moving the offense and scoring points just three years ago before getting killed by a bad offensive line.  It was the first time he had been in a true west coast offense and he flourished in it, with over a 90 QB rating.  The only question with Griese is he still the same player he was three years ago as the beating he took in Chicago was pretty terrible if you saw the games he was in last year. If he is okay mentally then I would think he can actually push Garcia for playing time… but we will have to wait and see.

Can you say I told you so?  New story today says that Allen asked Simms if Farve could pick up the system quickly in Tampa.  You can find this story on AP or Yahoo.  Not to break any copyrights, here is the first two paragraphs - you have to go get the rest.  Not saying this is the smartest move, but shows how Gruden never met an old QB he did not like…

Buccaneers have discussed making a deal for Favre

Acquiring Green Bay Packers quarterback Brett Favre has at least been discussed in the front office of One Buc Place. General manager Bruce Allen last week asked quarterback Chris Simms how he thought Favre would fare in the Bucs offense with limited practice time.

“He asked me questions about Brett Favre,” Simms said. “He asked if I felt Brett would be able to come back and be good here if he didn’t have a lot of reps in training camp. I said I thought he would but there would have to be some compromise with coach (Jon) Gruden. He’ll just want the play called and to drop back and throw it in there. But it’s something we talked about.”

LIVE FROM ASSISTANCE LIVING SERVICE OF FLORIDA & THE FEDERAL SOCIAL SERVICES CENTER FOR RETIREES
THURS, 24 JULY 2008

SUBJECT:  BRETT FAVRE, ANOTHER MILLIONAIRE- CELEBRITY, CONCEDED OLD FART, POTENTIAL BID CANDIDATE FOR THE NEW DOOR GREETER POSITION AT ANY WALMART STORE.

EVERYONE IS SICK AND TIRED READING AND HEARING ABOUT THESE SELFISH, GREEDY, LOUD MOUTH, MEDIA PURSUING CELEBRITIES WHO’S TIME IS UP IN THE SPOTLIGHT, WITH NO REMAINING MARKET VALUE, AND WON’T LEAVE QUIETLY BACK TO THEIR BEVERLY HILLS MANSION OR OLD KENTUCKY CABIN HOME IN JERK WATER MISSISSIPPI, USA.

BRETT FAVRE’S IMMATURE, CHILDISH BEHAVIOR IS INDICATIVE, THAT HE HAS NEVER FULLY RECOVERED FROM HIS YEARS OF TAKING AND ABUSING REPORTED PAINKILLER DRUGS FOR ALL OF THE KNOWN CONCUSSIONS, SUFFERED DURING HIS PROLONGED NFL RECORD SETTINGS CAREER.

THE CONSTANT SPORTING NEWS ANNOUNCEMENTS, CENTERED ON FAVRE, WOULD REMIND ANYONE OF A BAD DREAM OR MYSTERY, MATCHING DATE ENCOUNTER, RENDEZVOUS THAT ENDED UGLY AND WON’T GO AWAY NOR STOP CALLING YOU WHEN YOUR WIFE IS STILL AT HOME. DID ANYONE SEE THE MOVIES, GROUNDHOG DAY OR FATAL ATTRACTION? IF SO, THEN YOU UNDERSTAND MY PROVIDED EXAMPLES.

WITH THE HELP OF HIS IMMORAL AGENT, FAVRE IS DELIBERATELY TRYING TO MANIPULATE HIS SAGGING FAN SUPPORT & THE GREEN BAY PACKERS, WHO ORIGINALLY GAVE HIM, THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXCEL IN THE NFL, AND LATER RECEIVE $MILLIONS IN COMPENSATION AND ENDORSEMENTS. FAVRE COULD EASILY HAVE SPENT A SHORT, UNNOTICEABLE, NFL CAREER, PLACING ADS AS A QUARTERBACK FOR HIRE, MAKING CHEAP MOONSHINE-WHITE LIGHTNING AT HIS BACKWOODS, HILLBILLY STILL, JUDGING COW TIPPING CONTESTS, BOWHUNTING WITH TED NUGENT, SITTING ON HIS DEERSKIN COUCH OR BEARSKIN RUG WITH HIS DIPPING CHALICE AT A TRAILER PARK, READING OLD ISSUES OF “FIELD & STREAM” OR WATCHING RERUNS OF HEE- HAW, NASCAR, DUKES OF HAZZARD OR THE DANIEL BOONE TV SERIES WITH FESS PARKER WHILE SLOWLY GOING BROKE, BUYING SCRATCH-OFF LOTTERY TICKETS, SELLING AMWAY, MARY KAY, AVON PRODUCTS & WAITING FOR THE PHONE TO RING.

LIKE MANY OTHERS BEFORE HIM, FAVRE IS COMMITTING THE CRIME OF EXTORTION AND HIS REPUTATION & CHARACTER AS A FAMOUS, POPULAR NFL QUARTERBACK WILL BE TARNISHED FOREVER. THERE’S NO QUESTION NOR DOUBT, HIS RECORDS FOR PASSING, NUMBER OF GAMES PLAYED & SUPER BOWL WIN(S) WILL PROBABLY GET HIM ELECTED INTO THE NFL HALL OF SHAME.

FAVRE IS ADDICTED TO PLAYING GOLF ON ANY COURSE OR CYBER, VIDEO GAME WEBSITE AND WITH HIS POT OF GOLD, $MILLIONS IN WEALTH, HIDDEN FROM PUBLIC VIEW, THE BUCS DON’T NEED TO ADD ANOTHER QUARTERBACK, ESPECIALLY AN OLD THOROUGHBRED READY FOR PASTURE AND ANY AVAILABLE SENIOR TOUR FAIRLANE.

HOW MANY EXAMPLES ARE NEEDED TO COMPARE & CONCLUSIVELY PROVE, THAT BUCS COACH CHUCKIE GRUDEN, NEVER HAD THE ABILITY TO FOSTER, TRAIN, LEAD, DEVELOP A SUCCESSFUL, SKILLFUL & COMPATIBLE DRAFTED QUARTERBACK. INSTEAD HE CONTINUES TO SHOW A CONSTANT DEPENDENCY, NECESSITY TO RELY ON A CAROUSEL OF VETERAN, WELL-TRAVELED QBS TO MAKE HIS OFFENSIVE PLAYS & FORMATIONS SUCCESSFUL. THE TIMING & MOVEMENTS OF PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS OFF. SOME GUYS HAVE IT & SOME DON’T, THIS GROUP DID:

1. BART STARR- VINCE LOMBARDI
2. LEN DAWSON- HANK STRAMM
3. JOE NAMATH- WEEB EWBANK
4. ROGER STAUBACH- TOM LANDRY
5. FRAN TARKENTON- BUD GRANT
6. KENNY STABLER- JOHN MADDEN
7. TERRY BRADSHAW- CHUCK NOLL
8. DAN FOUTS- DON CORYELL
9. DAN MARINO- DON SHULA
10. JIM KELLY- MARVE LEVY
11. PEYTON MANNING- TONY DUNGY
12. TOM BRADY- BILL BELLICHEK

HEY BRETT FAVRE, TAKE A TIP FROM STEVE YOUNG WHO RETIRED WITH AT LEAST #10- NOTED CONCUSSIONS SUFFERED IN HIS CAREER AND KNEW WHEN TO QUIT, LEAVING QUIETLY.

I’M JUST AN OKIE FROM MUSKOGIE.
“COUNTRY ROAD, TAKE ME HOME, TO THE PLACE WHERE I BELONG, MISSISSIPPI, VALLEYS-RIVER MOMMA, TAKE ME HOME, MY COUNTRY HOME.”
“CAUSE LIKE A ANGEL, SHE WAS LAYING THERE, MOONLIGHT DANCING OFF HER HAIR, I WOKE UP, SHE TOOK ME BY THE HAND, MADE LOVE IN MY CHEVY VAN & THAT’S ALRIGHT WITH ME.” “IF THE TRAILER IS ROCKING, DON’T BOTHER KNOCKING, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, VERN?”

IT’S NO SURPRISE TO ANYONE, TO SEE THE SAME SELF-CENTERED ATTITUDES AND DESIRES SHARED BY BOTH SPORTS CELEBRITIES & GOV’T POLITICIANS WHO ARE COLLECTIVELY AGAINST TERM LIMITS FOR ELIGIBILITY & SERVING POSITIONS OF PUBLIC OFFICE.

THAT’S MY STORY AND I’M STICKING TO IT!
francissoldier- “SHE BLINDED ME WITH SCIENCE”

Acura, you said Grise is capable of keeping games close. I don’t know about you, but I’m tired of that being a Buccaneer Quarterback Necessity. It’s almost as though it’s written in their resumes. My other favorite team, the Rays, talk about how up till this year it’s been a “ At least we made the series competitive” or “at least we took two out of three”. This year they decided to go for the throat of teams and complete the sweeps. Not settle for “ keeping it close.”. It’s time the Bucs take the same road. We don’t want a QB who can keep us in a game-we want one who CAN WIN IT! Garcia is THAT guy. Chris Simms used to feel like “THAT” guy, to me. McCown is POTENTIALLY THAT guy. Brett Favre WAS that guy. Keep Garcia, give him a better contract, bring along Johnson, Griese is number two, and Emcee (MCCown) should play his heart out for number three. Gruden and ALlen sat on their 30 million dollar nest egg this entire offseason and now they want to drop it all for Favre. Hold off Chucky. His time has passed and I assure you if he comes here, you’re time will too.

We will see, jvnootz.  The only problem is that we all know Garcia will not last the sesaon, to play devil’s advocate.  So Griese better be still good enough to win games like three years ago.  Or this season will go in the toliet as soon as Garcia gets hurt - be it the third game or 10th game.

Here is something interesting I am sure we may see from Gruden in a year or two: the two QB offense.  An innovative team in high school football came up with an offense using two QBs that makes all players eligible for going downfield.  Depending which QB takes the ball some players go downfield and the others block.  They are now on a seven game winning streak and opposing teams are having a terrible time defensing the ball.  The question is, would it work in college or the NFL?  We all know not everything transfers over all that well - will a team try this?

http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=825031

Urban Meyer used this type of offense with Tim Tebow and Chris Leak at Florida two years ago. It took them all the way to the championship, and many other collge football team’s employ this offense. (LSU used it to bring in Peroleax’s speed and FLynn’s arm. It’s ben a mainstay in college for a few years now as teams use a “change of pace” QB as some would use running backs. As for it’s success in the NFL- never gonna happen. You don’t pay guys 5 million a year to split such a serious duty. A change of pace running back is one thing, two quarterbacks is another. Don’t expect to see it used as regularly as college . “ Two quarterbacks means you don’t have ONE real one.”

jvnootz - 25 July 2008 01:25 PM

Urban Meyer used this type of offense with Tim Tebow and Chris Leak at Florida two years ago. It took them all the way to the championship, and many other collge football team’s employ this offense. (LSU used it to bring in Peroleax’s speed and FLynn’s arm. It’s ben a mainstay in college for a few years now as teams use a “change of pace” QB as some would use running backs. As for it’s success in the NFL- never gonna happen. You don’t pay guys 5 million a year to split such a serious duty. A change of pace running back is one thing, two quarterbacks is another. Don’t expect to see it used as regularly as college . “ Two quarterbacks means you don’t have ONE real one.”

I think you misunderstood me.  It is not using two QBs at different times like Florida did. This is using two QBs simultatnously in the same backfield.  The way the play works is you have two QBs in the backfield, say Jeff Garcia and Brian Griese simultaneously.  Then, you place the remaining 10 players along the line who are all eligible receivers on the play.  When you hike the ball (in the shot gun), it goes to one of the QBs, who has the option to throw a shovel pass to the other QB, a backward pass to the other QB, a pass to any of the ten players who go downfield (all players are eligiblie, but only up to five can run downfield), or a QB sneak.  In high school which I admit is very different from pro ball, it confuses the opposition.  You get the opportunity for mismatches on the line if you have a defensive lineman covering a guy going downfield for example.

Like I said, it is fansiciating.  Will it work?  I have no idea.  Is it different, definately?  Would I like to see a team try it in the college ranks and then the NFL if it works?  Possibliy.  It is just a little different.

AcuraT - 26 July 2008 02:58 AM

jvnootz - 25 July 2008 01:25 PM

Urban Meyer used this type of offense with Tim Tebow and Chris Leak at Florida two years ago. It took them all the way to the championship, and many other collge football team’s employ this offense. (LSU used it to bring in Peroleax’s speed and FLynn’s arm. It’s ben a mainstay in college for a few years now as teams use a “change of pace” QB as some would use running backs. As for it’s success in the NFL- never gonna happen. You don’t pay guys 5 million a year to split such a serious duty. A change of pace running back is one thing, two quarterbacks is another. Don’t expect to see it used as regularly as college . “ Two quarterbacks means you don’t have ONE real one.”

I think you misunderstood me.  It is not using two QBs at different times like Florida did. This is using two QBs simultatnously in the same backfield.  The way the play works is you have two QBs in the backfield, say Jeff Garcia and Brian Griese simultaneously.  Then, you place the remaining 10 players along the line who are all eligible receivers on the play.  When you hike the ball (in the shot gun), it goes to one of the QBs, who has the option to throw a shovel pass to the other QB, a backward pass to the other QB, a pass to any of the ten players who go downfield (all players are eligiblie, but only up to five can run downfield), or a QB sneak.  In high school which I admit is very different from pro ball, it confuses the opposition.  You get the opportunity for mismatches on the line if you have a defensive lineman covering a guy going downfield for example.

Like I said, it is fansiciating.  Will it work?  I have no idea.  Is it different, definately?  Would I like to see a team try it in the college ranks and then the NFL if it works?  Possibliy.  It is just a little different.

The NFL only allows a team to have 11 players on the field at a time so you can’t have two quarterbacks in the backfield and ten men on the line of scrimmage. At least 4 of the interior linemen won’t be eligible to catch a pass.

The Green Bay Packers used something like you are suggesting in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Bart Starr was the quarterback and Paul Hornung, who was a quarterback at Notre Dame, the halfback. The Packer sweep had both guards pulling leading Hornung and Jim Taylor around one end of the line. Starr would hand the ball to Hornung or Taylor. Hornung would either run it or throw a pass. Taylor would either run it or hand it off to Hornung who could again run or throw a pass. One variation had Hornung throwing back to Starr who could pass or run. Another variation had Starr faking the handoff, allowing the defense to chase the sweep, and throw a pass downfield. The defense had to cover every player on the field.

Some teams use the running back pass today but they are trying to surprise the defense and get a wide open receiver. There are plenty of running quarterbacks in college but nobody seems to use them on a regular basis to force the defense to cover all possible receivers.