I know this will shock everyone, but I think the June move was pretty good.  I’m not sure exactly how they are going to line up the LBs since June and Brooks play the same position, but I’m still pleased.  I guess this is this year’s nut that those two blind squirrels found.

Now Gruden is talking about moving up to draft a QB.  What more proof do all of you need that the Gruden/Allen combo will never bring us a championship.

You mean again?

BadBuc.net - 27 March 2007 06:52 PM

You mean again?

The Gruden/Allen combo has never won any championship.  That would be a team run by McKay with Gruden as a coach.

BadBuc.net - 14 March 2007 06:03 PM

Paul M. - 14 March 2007 05:28 PM

I remember back in the good old days we had good coaching.  But I guess we can’t even claim that now.  And of course that has nothing to do with Gruden or Allen, right?  Ask Joe Barry or Rod Marinelli if they would recommend a coach go to the Bucs.  If you remember the Gruden/Allen tandem prevented both those coaches from being promoted by other teams.  So I doubt a “good” coach really wants to go to a team if they know they will be held back by Gruden/Allen.  But what do I know… I’m just a bandwagon fan that only sticks around when the times are good, right?

Marinelli and Barry were under contract. G/A kept them as long as they could, because they are good coaches. They left for career advancement reasons, not because of G/A.

The Bucs have been raped of good coaches during the Gruden years, and it’s hard for a team to overcome that.........it’s frustrating to say the least, but when a good coach’s contract is up, they get bigger job offers that pay more money. If you want to blame Gruden and Allen for that, then I don’t know what to tell you.

I just wish some fans were more informed before they start their unlucid rhetoric.

I thought this article would keep all us from being uninformed before I state any unlucid rhetoric:

Ex-Buc Tomlin Says He Won’t Stifle Assistants
Published: Mar 28, 2007

TBO.com Site Search

PHOENIX - Mike Tomlin knew the question was coming and he was prepared.

Tampa Bay’s former secondary coach is heading into his first season as an NFL head coach with the Steelers. His first priority was building a strong staff of assistants, knowing any position coach who excels instantly becomes a candidate for a coordinator job elsewhere.

“You know I’m not going to be a hypocrite,” Tomlin said when asked about his views on allowing assistants under contract to leave for another organization. “If that opportunity presents itself, I’d be inclined to wish him well. What other industry is there where you perform at a high level, you get an opportunity for advancement and you don’t advance? I have strong feelings about that. I’ll put my money where my mouth is.

“Absolutely, I was denied in Tampa on more than one occasion, along with Rod Marinelli and Joe Barry, and we didn’t appreciate it. People say that they care about you professionally and personally, but those actions don’t match those words.”

Was it the Buccaneer organization or the head coach?

“No comment,” he said.

There was more but this was the important part for us.  If you were a good upcoming assistant coach, which team/coach/management would you want to work for?

New England Patriots, Best overall franchise in all of sports, top to bottom.

Eventho i hate the Patriots, it would still be in my opinion the best club to work for.

Paul, I was just about to post the same thing about the coaches not being allowed to leave. I still feel that they should honor their contract regardless.

Just like I said in another thread, it’s part of the game.  Just like renewing contracts and cutting players, you sometimes have to do something you don’t like to succeed.  If you bring good people in they will help you and then move on to bigger and better, but the people with the capability to move on are the same ones you want to help your organization.  An unhappy player, coach, or assistant will not be as productive.

You guys are forgetting that the Bucs couldn’t have stopped Herm Edwards or Lovie Smith from leaving if they wanted to.  Smith’s contract was up, and Edwards left to become a head coach.  NFL rules say that a team can interview and hire any assistant on any team (as long as their season is over) if it is for the head coach position.

Sure it’s unfortunate that these things come up, but Allen made it clear from the beginning that no-one, coach or player (see : McCardell), should sign a contract if they don’t intend to honour it in full.  You can’t have one standard for coaches and another for players.

Also, all the defensive assistants re-upped AFTER Gruden came onboard, I believe.  And in denying Marinelli the opportunity to take the d-coordinator’s job (in Arizona?) he said something to the effect of “He doesn’t need to be messing around as a coordinator. Marinelli’s going to be a head coach within two years” which, of course, he was.

If you follow other teams, you’ll become aware that almost every assistant runs into this sort of dilemma at some point.  They just don’t all take their complaints to the newspapers.

Thanks for further supporting the Facts. The Bucs are not the ONLY TEAM to refuse a coach.

BadBuc.net - 07 March 2007 10:59 PM

Jones, Lynch and Sapp were cap casualties.......a neccessary evil, but it had to be done. Sapp’s production was dwindling, and Lynch was coming off an injury. Losing Lynch hurt the most, but it helped cap-wise. I believe 47 has been to every pro bowl since leaving.

I recall Lynch offering to take a pay cut and basicly pleading to do whatever he needed to remain and retire a Buc. He was forced out and it is THE worst move Gruden has made since taking over. We just had to hurry up and stick Jermaine Phillips in the cause he is so good.

Sapp didn’t bother me. His production was slipping and he was being a pain in the ass.

If we would have kept Jones we wouldn’t have needed Caddy and could have helped ourselves in another area thru the draft 2 years ago.

Don’t forget that Warren Sapp sat on the market and didn’t try visiting any other teams for the first two weeks of free agency.  He wanted to come back here and probably would have come back for less.  I was all for letting him walk for a bigger payday because he wasn’t worth big money anymore, but I changed my tune when we could have possibly signed him with an hometown discount.  I think people made football moves that year with personal feelings and pride involved.

Everyone seemed to know Jones was a stud.  Our team would be a lot better now if we kept him and used that #5 on someone else… maybe a (gasp)...dare I say it.... a defensive player.  Just in case any of you are wondering that’s not hindsight, I was saying it back then.  although I will admit I was eyeing Mike Williams at the time.  I guess we know why I’m not a GM.

To be fair, I don’t think the Sapp/Lynch cuts were Gruden so much as Monte Kiffin.  Don’t get me wrong, I love Monte.  If you recall, up until that time, Monte would cut or trade many defensive players - popular or not - once they reached the point where he believed their production was in decline (See: D. Abraham, B. Culpepper, C. Ahanoutu, H. Nickerson).  He’s a strong believer in giving the younger guys a shot once that happens, and has done it over and over again.  There’s even an article from a couple of days ago in the Trib where he talks about that. (Get ready to say goodbye to Brooks & Quarles next year, by the same token).

As it turns out, he was wrong about Lynch, and maybe mis-judged J. Phillips’ readiness. And maybe we would’ve been better off with Sapp in there, declined production or no.  But those are two mistakes among many brilliant ones by Kiff.  I feel bad for the way Sapp’s and Lynch’s releases were handled, but I can forgive the decision.

As for Thomas Jones, Gruden was ridiculed when he brought him onto the Bucs - another cast-off from Arizona (remember Pittman hadn’t really shown his value yet).  Jones had a one-year contract, and showed great flashes.  But then when the Bucs went to re-sign him, he wanted HUGE money, something his play hadn’t shown that he was worthy of, and the cap-strapped Bucs couldn’t afford anyway.  I think everyone knew we were letting one get away there, but what could we do?

Drop Pittman and keep Jones.

If Monte Kiffin really made the decision to force Lynch out then he is not the God I make him out to be. I won’t beleive it unless I here Monte say that himself.

BTW, after another disappointing year I hope Kiffin gets the head coaching job in Tampa.

I think anybody who says to trade D.Brooks has prally not been a bucs fan for very long.